Viagra for Women full transcript

Myisha Battle: From KCRW, this is How's Your Sex Life? I'm Myisha Battle. I am so excited to present you with a few questions today that kind of span a wide range of topics. We've got a listener question about where she can attend bodysex workshops, as I mentioned in a previous episode. We have someone who's curious about why there isn't a Viagra drug for women. Big question. And we also have a question about how to bridge the gap between watching intense pornography and then trying to date in the real world and assimilate your expectations with that. So yeah, a wide wide range of questions. But first, I want to start with a listener question that was submitted via voice memo, which we love here. And really, really encourage, if you have a question, or even a follow up to something that you hear on the podcast, feel free to email that to us at sex life at kcrw dot org. We would love to hear from you. I always want to hear follow ups from people who I gave advice to tell me if it worked if it didn't work. You know, why? All of those things. It's great to have that feedback and to keep the conversation going. So yeah, let's take a listen to that voice memo.

Question 1: Hi Myisha. I love this show. My question is do you know of any kind of sexuality classes for women, such as the one that the amazing Betty Dodson would offer? I at the lovely age of 70 I have found my clitoris and it's great. But something about taking a class with other women would be fantastic. And it sounds like complete fun.

Myisha Battle: Okay, so Betty Dodson is no longer with us. She passed away a couple years ago, and her legacy certainly lives on. And that is especially true with her bodysex workshops, because prior to her passing, she actually established a business with Carlin Ross. And she basically taught Carlin everything that she knows. They facilitated a lot of bodysex workshops together. And so Carlin essentially is sort of like next gen Betty Dodson as far as the techniques that Betty used to teach are concerned. On social media she's at Dodson and Ross, at least on Instagram, and then you can find her work at Dodson and Ross dot com. That has a lot of blog posts that were created when Betty was still around that explain her techniques, you know, help people understand their bodies a little bit more, because Betty was all about giving people that anatomical information and making sure that they had a, a good understanding of their own anatomy. So, yeah, please feel free to check out that resource and I hope that you find some good stuff there. I think that she's she's teaching pretty regularly. So you know, feel free to, to take a look at when her next retreat or workshop is going on. And one of the reasons why I send you here is because there is this direct link to Betty Dodson. There may be other organizations or teachers or practitioners out there that have maybe specialized certifications that teach something similar, and that's fine. I just want to encourage people to do their research before shelling out a bunch of cash and going to a retreat, especially when it's something that involves your sexual development. Just be cautious out there. There are some scammers and, you know, just knowing the legacy that Betty left behind, I would put I would put my money on Carlin at this point.

Myisha Battle: Okay, so moving on to our next question, which is a doozy and I'm going to be referencing a lot of different material for the answer. This one really had me going to some corners of the internet. But the question is, ‘Why isn't there a Viagra type drug for women?’ It is a fantastic question and initially when I saw it I was thinking, well, here's what I know. I know that historically, women, and specifically women's health, and then further women's sexual health has been historically very underserved. So that's kind of where my brain went. And then I was like, yeah, but I know there's the story of a little pink pill that was supposed to be this Viagra for women. It came out about 10 years ago. And I realized that I knew nothing really about it other than it didn't come to market then. Apparently it is on the market now. The information that I'm getting is largely from the Our Bodies Ourselves Today website, which I think is fantastic, and this blog that I found is called 'Why doesn't a Viagra equivalent exist for women?' So they talk specifically about this drug that came out in 2014 and forgive me if I butcher the pronunciation of it because drug names are wild, y'all. Let's see, hold on. Flibanserin. Okay. Flibanserin is the name of this drug. And what I gathered from this article is that Flibanserin did not make it to market because there the clinical trials were abysmal. There were a lot of side effects. This was actually an antidepressant that was discovered to have properties of increasing sexual interest. So then they pivoted and marketed it as a, you know, a drug that would address hyposexuality in women. So, number one, that's not a great place to start, right? They didn't seek out to address sexual dysfunction, or hyposexuality in women. They were developing something for another reason, and then wanted to repurpose it. And then, of course, the clinical trials not doing well and having all of these side effects for the participants did not bode well. The controversy then expanded into people coming out and saying, 'Well, actually, hey, this is discrimination like we want this drug give us this drug.' But a little further investigation would show that the group that was behind this petition to get the drug to market was also, you know, backed by big pharma. So the folks at Our Bodies Ourselves were part of a group of a coalition of women's organizations that said, 'No, we really want safe drugs, we want things that are going to be actually effective.' They list that for most women with sexual complaints the reasons are social, relational, and psychological, which can't be quote unquote, fixed with pills. And I really agree with that first statement. The second point they bring up is that the FDA is going to be commended for its non-existent pro woman determination to block approval of harmful drugs and effective and ineffective drugs. They say there is no Viagra for women, because applicants, because applicant drugs, have failed the FDA standards of safety and effectiveness. This is like when when else are we just like pushing things forward to market, you know, with abysmal clinical trials, like people do try this, but usually, we catch this we have systems in place. There's also this kind of, I think, common thing that happens which is anytime you want to put something to market, you exaggerate the problem. And so their last bullet point is that the pharma slash PR claim that 43% of all women have a sexual dysfunction is spurious, as is the claim that one in 10 American women have a biological lack of desire. So I know in my practice, that this is a really common experience for women, but they're saying that the current research shows that less than 10% of women have persistent distressing symptoms and no biological cause has ever been identified. So I went further and looked at Viagra, okay, so why does Viagra work? Well, Viagra works because lots of lots of chemical, you know, compounds in the drug help to make blood flow possible to the penis, and it allows for the blood flow to sort of remain there in complete layman's terms, right? There's nothing to suggest that doing the same thing for women would solve this problem of low libido. There's a drug out there now called the O shot. And as I looked into this I was slightly horrified. It's basically plasma replacements. It's like taking your own plasma and then re-injecting it into yourself. And this is supposed to be great for orgasms. But again, we're not solving for the low desire issue. So sexual functioning is one thing. And I think there are tons of people who have issues with sexual functioning, especially as women age, we notice that there is some deterioration or like lessening of nerve endings in the clitoris. So you know, stimulation might not be the same. You might have lessened sensation, you might have lower quality, you know, by comparison to your younger years, orgasms. All of this stuff is like very, very real, right? And wouldn't it be nice if we had something that could alleviate some of those those issues. So that's sort of what the O shot seems to be aiming to do, not just for people who are going through menopause, but you know, at any stage when you're just like, I don't think that I'm at the peak of what I would like to experience when it comes to sexual functioning and orgasm. Okay, great. So what does that mean, you have to get a shot in one of these, like Med Spa offices. It is incredibly expensive. No insurance is going to cover it. It's like thousands of dollars and you have to do that every single year. So for most of us this just really isn't going to be a solution. So now I'm gonna I'm coming back to my original thought, which is like medical research cares very little about women's health, women's sexual health and functioning. And there are a lot more complex issues that are going on with regard to why women experience low desire that we're not talking about, I think maybe in social media, we're talking a little bit more about it. But knowing what I know, working with clients who are part of that 10%, who struggle with low desire, this is very distressing in partnership. And I do think that there are conditions that cause less distress in one's life that we've invested a lot of money to solve. So, I mean, here's here's sort of a call to action, let's invest money in these underserved areas of women's health, particularly sexual health because there's this stigma that women are not sexual, shouldn't be sexual, you're lucky if you have, you know, any desire at all, goodbye, you know. So I really just want us to think about the kind of constellation of factors that go into why this is something that isn't as readily available. And of course, I'm sure I'm missing a lot of bullet points here, but this is, you know, me going down my personal rabbit hole of research into this topic and coming out with what I feel are some some good reputable sources, you know, we can put a link to the Our Bodies Ourselves Today blog post, because I think it is helpful. So that's, that's the why that's the how, and unfortunately, I think we're far away, unless there's current research that's being done, from having an equivalent of a Viagra drug for women. 

Myisha Battle: All right, that was a lot, so we need to take a quick break. But when we come back, we'll hear from a lonely listener who developed a hardcore porn habit that may be blocking him from enjoying sex in the mainstream dating world.

[BREAK]

Myisha Battle: And we're back. Let's get to our next question, which has to do with watching a lot of hardcore porn.

Question 3: Hi Myisha, for pretty much my entire life I have been alone. I guess it's always been my fate. Anyhow, to compensate for this, I started watching some intense BDSM in order to enjoy pornography without showing myself something that I really wanted but could not have. I'm not trying to find some super kinky dominatrix at this point in my life, but I am finally able to get out there and meet women at places that I like to go. The problem is that I'm now having total issues becoming aroused at all, especially with somebody new, instead losing myself in anxiety to the point that sometimes Viagra does not even help me. Do you have any advice or suggestions for me? 

Myisha Battle: Well, thank you to this question asker for bringing up something that I think a lot of people struggle with, maybe not to this degree, they might even not register this as an issue as they're going through it. But I think as we unpack it together, there will be some elements that will definitely resonate with folks. So porn is fantastic sexual entertainment. It is not sexual education, but it's entertainment. And the performers are performing for our entertainment and our enjoyment, right? The thing about it is, is that the format that we receive our pornography in, ie these tube sites like Pornhub, and YouPorn, they can kind of take us to zones that are more extreme than we might normally allow ourselves to go. And for some of us, that's really helpful, right? It's like, oh, I didn't know I liked that. I like that. And then like, I like this adjacent thing, because you're constantly being fed, new videos based on the things that you prefer. But for some of us, that intensity that just keeps getting ramped up and up and up and up, means that like, there's a part of us that's kind of gotten used to that high level of intensity. So if you think about it, it's very similar to the feedback that we get from social media, you know, going through seeing something that we like, right and getting fed more of what we like, oh my gosh, you know, I love baby penguins. Now I'm watching like, baby penguin videos all the time. Now, there's like something adjacent to baby penguins. It's also cute and adorable. And like, that endorphin rush of seeing things that we like, over and over and over again, actually does tax our hormone system. We get to the point where we're getting so much dopamine all the time, from this very specific thing, that it's hard to then get a general dopamine hit from the things that we, you know, should enjoy. Like, maybe the company of other people. You know, sometimes I see a lot of puppy videos on Instagram, and I'm like, 'Why do I hang out with humans, puppies are great.' Puppies are amazing! Um, but you know, what I'm saying this is this is something that can happen. And it can happen in different forums. The reason that I'm bringing this up, is because we think of people who have compulsions toward pornography, as you know, maybe sex addicts or porn addicts, but in reality something on on a smaller scale is happening inside all of us. Whether we like it or not, we're all kind of getting hooked on these bits of feedback and dopamine hits that we're getting from the technology that we use. How does this relate to what you're experiencing in real life? Well, if you have just watched cock and ball torture, for two hours, and you are getting off on that imagery, and all that, that does to your nervous system, and then you go to a coffee date with someone who wants to talk to you about what you do for work, and you know, where you grew up...by comparison, that may feel very mundane, very boring, very, not what you're into. It can also cause a lot of anxiety too, because, you know, as you said, you've been alone for a really long time. And now you're branching off into trying to find companionship. And that's not an easy transition. I think there can be a couple things going on simultaneously for you where you're out of practice with being vulnerable and being present with new people and the pressure of all of that combined with the fact that you have kind of like reached such a level that you have to have, like kind of this really intense experience happen in order for you to get aroused and stay aroused, that this just, this whole process may just be really, really overwhelming for you. And I fully understand that and want to encourage you to, to get some support around this. I would say that this goes beyond, to just like, giving yourself a porn break. I think that talking to somebody about like, the way that you have been relating to pornography could be really, really helpful. Somebody who does a lot of work in the area of compulsive porn behavior is Dr. Marty Klein. He's one of the first people that I learned about, who basically rejected the idea that there are sex addicts, and that there's porn addiction and he talks more about it as this compulsion. When we have compulsions, usually there's something behind it and I think the combination of loneliness and filling that loneliness with something that's so intense, has caused, you know, a real struggle for you internally when it comes to going out on dates. Does this mean you're broken? No, you know, this means that this is your unique struggle to work through and there are trained professionals who can help you do that work. I recommend going into a mental health space as opposed to a coaching space because I do think that like with compulsions you're talking about, what are you doing, like compulsively? That is... like what is the benefit of that compulsion? Right? Well, I don't feel as lonely or I do get that dopamine hit or, you know, I don't feel bored, I don't feel disconnected anymore because I'm watching something where I feel like I'm engaging with other people, even if I'm not, right? And so there are benefits to what you're doing, we just need to understand, like maybe some different outlets for that. You could try to not engage in porn for a little while and that may help to sort of reset things for you. But I also think as you're exploring that, you should also have some emotional support too because you've been doing this for so long, it is your comfort. And so figuring out a good way for you to have a relationship with pornography, as well as branch out and meet people and have interpersonal relationships that you feel really good about and sexual experiences that you feel really good about. I think that's going to take the help of somebody who can like work with you long term, to unpack these things, and understand them for yourself, because right now, I think it's all a jumble and you need some support.

[Final Thoughts] 

Myisha Battle: I have been a sex coach for almost eight years. And the thing that I know is that I don't know everything. Every single time I speak to a new client or I get a question from one of you I am struck by the complexity of what sex means to people, what it does for people, how people want to engage with it or not, the struggles that they have with reconciling some of the cultural messages that they get about themselves, and how they experience sex versus you know, what they really truly feel about themselves sexually. It's just a very rich tapestry, and and it's a job that I don't think I will ever get bored of. There are some times when I'm like, okay, this is a very similar issue that I'm hearing over and over and over again, okay, fine, fair. But there's always some nuance to it, whether it be someone's culture, or gender, or orientation, or ability or age, that puts a specific spin on it. So something that I tell my clients over and over and over again, and I'm here to tell you is that the things that we just went into are more common than most of us would like to think. And the reason for that, of course, is that we don't talk enough about sex. We don't get a really solid foundation about sex. But I would also say that we very much are so personally linked to our sexualities. And I mean that in like the best possible ways, like it's a very tender area. And it's something that we've kind of outsourced to other people to like, tell me who I am, tell me what I like, tell me how to fix this problem, etc, etc, which can be fun or it can be, you know, dangerous. I talked about, you know, people who are seeking in this area, in the sex space, can run across some shifty characters, right. And that's because like, again, lack of information at our fingertips. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to do an advice podcast about sex is to have a space where people could ask the hard questions, and get answers to the best of my ability and when I don't know, I'll do my research. I hope that you felt that in this episode it's a little different than my normal response, but that's because I really wanted to give a comprehensive answer to a question that I think a lot of people wonder about, a lot of people have questions about, and the answers are not always simple. And I'm hoping that this show is a good jumping off point to point you in the right direction to get those answers.

[CREDITS]

Myisha Battle: How's Your Sex Life is a KCRW original podcast. Our producer is Andrea Bautista. Our executive producer is Gina Delvac. Our engineer is Nick Lampone. Our music was created by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Special thanks to Women's Audio Mission, Nathalie Hill, Connie Alvarez, Megan Ellingboe, Arnie Seipel and Jennifer Ferro.