Talk Dirty to Me full transcript

Carol Queen: If you don't want to start using the four letter words for your genitals, pick a spicy name for it. Jezebel was wondering where you were. Where are you? [Laughter]

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Myisha Battle: Welcome back to KCRW's How's Your Sex Life? Your sex and dating survival guide. I'm your host, Myisha Battle, and I'm here to tell you that sex and dating can be scary sometimes, but that's hopefully only a small part of it. Today we're gonna hear your questions about dirty talk and exploring sexuality in your 60s, plus we'll hear one of your dating horror stories. And I'm here today with Carol Queen. Hi Carol!

Carol: Hi Myisha. I'm so glad to be with you.

Myisha: I'm so happy to be with you! We're in studio together today in San Francisco, which is amazing. I'm so glad you're here because you're a true sexological legend. You're the staff sexologist for the sex shop Good Vibes here in the Bay Area, an award winning author and an activist. And I love any chance that I get to talk with you. We are going to be dishing out some advice to people today. I'm so happy to have your perspective, but before we get into that I have a question for you.

Carol: I'm all ears.

Myisha: How's your sex life?

Carol: My sex life is fine. It is greatly changed from my younger years. I decided to do menopause bareback. That does not mean without condoms all y'all, that's a different, it's a different subgroup of the population who speaks that way. I would speak that way if I was talking about condoms, but I'm not, and that means that my libido just radically changed. The sensations so I'm like, look, I think I might have a new whole body right here, and that, of course, is one of the gifts of post menopause, is, what is my, what is my new normal? What is my new body? What do? What do I want now? So, so that's been interesting to delve into during pandemic years, particularly because it allowed for some focus around those kinds of things. Well, I'm going to line up these vibrators and do a little experiment! [Laughing]

Myisha: Okay, okay! Have you been enjoying any learnings from that?

Carol: Well, yeah, I mean, pick out my fave vibrator.

Myisha: Mmm.

Carol: And also I've noticed that I wait a few days in between play and the orgasm is better, which can be true for people of different ages as well, but didn't used to be true for me. It was like, woo, more, more, more! And that's that's no longer my space. And you know, it opens up space for other things, which is great.

Myisha: Well, thanks again for sharing that. And I think this is a great place to jump into some questions. So let us take a listen to our first question, and just a reminder, our questions are voiced by actors to keep everyone anonymous.

Question 1: Hey, Myisha, I have two questions. How do I talk dirty? And what do guys want to hear? I'm in a new relationship and want to talk more openly about what I like and what he likes, but I'm not sure what kind of language I should use. Do you have any suggestions?

Myisha: I get this question a lot. I'm sure you get this question a lot. First thoughts?

Carol: You can't generalize about what men like, because they'll very likely like different things depending on the man or any other human as it happens, which is great to remember, because our culture really wants to say, men like this, women like this, this, that this, that, and it can be descriptive sometimes, and it can totally throw us off the mark sometimes. So, so the question is, what does this man want to hear? And equally important, if not even maybe a titch more important, what do you want to say? What do you feel comfortable saying? What does it turn you on to say? And and the talking erotically in bed or wherever it is, is a great technique to talk about what you like and all of that. So it's a fabulous spoonful of sugar technique for having better sex. But it's also an erotic engine in and of itself, if you find that you enjoy it. So think about the words that when you read em in erotica or wherever you're like oh! Think about the ones that you're like, oh, I don't know. Don't use those ones first, maybe later you will want to use them, but don't jump into something that's uncomfortable. When I was writing exhibitionism for the shy, which has a couple of chapters about erotic talk, I encouraged people to get a drawing of a human of a kind that you identify with in terms of body parts and stuff. And, you know, label it with body parts you like. If you don't live with lots of people who would not want to see it, just magnet it to the fridge and walk by it every day when you're getting your coffee to get used to it, but also have fun with it! And if you don't want to start using the four letter words for your genitals, pick a spicy name for it. Jezebel was wondering where you were. [Laughter] Where are you? Oh, Jezebel, what? Jezebel wants to know what you're wearing. That's cute! What did Elvis Presley call his penis?

Myisha: I don't remember.

Carol: Little Elvis! [Laughter] So have fun! Clearly Elvis did, either that or he was extremely self centered, but I don't want to accuse Elvis of that. We don't need to go there.

Myisha: Yeah, no. These are fantastic pieces of advice and things that I talk with my clients a lot about, because they are predominantly women who are partnered with men who have asked them to be more vocal. And so there's this tension of, I want to do this. I don't know how to do this. I don't know where to start. And my god, if he asked me to use the word cunt, I'm going to crawl up and shrivel and die like it's just not who they are, you know, and so, yeah, there's, there's usually a lot of conversation about, like, what are you comfortable with?Like, directly pulling from scenes, from if, if it's erotica, or if it's a show. Some, some of my clients have kind of pointed to things like Bridgerton where there's this, like, tension and and really, it's about what's not being said, or implication that gets them really excited. So I'm like, yeah! You know, sexy talk isn't just the things that you're saying, but it can, it can definitely be the things you're not saying, as you're trying to communicate something sexual. Or, you know, it's an invitation to sort of bring that flirty banter into the relationship. So I think when people realize that there are many ways to do this, and they get to choose, that's that's the freeing part.

Carol: I think that's extremely important, partly because, you're right. We don't want to get women saying cunt, who have felt like it's a pejorative their whole life. I started my erotic talk journey with that exact same scenario, talk dirty to me. And I was like, oh! And of course, I'm not suggesting that everybody else go and do what I did, but what I did was went down to the Lusty Lady peep show and got a job so I could practice on strangers and get paid! So that, I mean, like I'm saying, I'm not recommending all y'all, but some percentage of the population will wind up having an Only Fans and if you did, that would be a place to practice.

Myisha: Right, right for sociological purposes!

Carol: Yeah!

Myisha: For personal growth.

Carol: Right, for understanding and also, you know what I learned from the peep show? What mom told me when she said, men only want one thing? Oh, no. They want lots of different things. There are so many fantasies. There's so many, you know, trigger points of arousal. And we're all like that. You know, we've all got our own set of of that works, that doesn't work, and one of the things that I really think some people who are super frightened to talk dirty struggle with is that they really don't know what they want to say. They don't know what they want to ask for. They don't know if asking for something sends the wrong impression that they don't want to send. You know, if you say, fuck me harder, does that mean he's always going to fuck you harder? Because that wouldn't that wouldn't be adequate sex education in the moment. Getting, so you can talk to your person or persons, frankly about things, is a wonderful door to open to erotic talk, and you can do it the other way around. They're two different things. They can be so beautifully linked, but you gotta be willing to put your experience out there to another human, and if you can't do that, maybe a therapist!

Myisha: Yeah, well, I was thinking too of your experience with the Lusty Lady, like, did you go in as Carol? Or was it helpful for you to have a persona that helped create some distance between what you were doing there in that experimental phase and like who you were as like an observer, because that's sometimes what I recommend, too, is like, create a little bit of distance. Maybe it's it's helpful to play a character

Carol: Right,

Myisha: That embodies all of your desires and lust and and does say the thing that feels a bit naughty, and does go to places that are a little scary, because that's who they are, that's just so them.

Carol: Yeah.

Myisha: It's not you, but it is you, you know? That can be really fun.

Carol: When I was writing Exhibitionism for the Shy I talked to several different people who I thought were like, they have got to be a big old exhibitionist, including my friend, Nina Hartley! And we were talking about, you know, this whole thing of operating under a stage name and and having your persona that you present, in her case, in such an obvious, you know, accessible to so many ways. She's got a long and long and beautiful career in the erotic world, and she said, when I was first getting started, I tried to make a character who was not scared of things, who was confident, who felt good about sex and felt good about being sexy, who, and you know, she's listing out all these things that a lot of us have had a little challenge with, here or there. And what she was saying was, so did she. And so she cooked up Nina and boom, it really worked. It really worked! And I think one of the things that that that story tells me, I may be making this up, but one of the things that it tells me is that there's some realness under there that people could tap into when they watched her, they got some of that vibe of I stepped out of my comfort zone and became comfortable, so can you, it's not that hard. So the answer to your question about me is yes and no. Yes, I had a persona, in fact, at the Lusty Lady, we were required to have a stage name. We could not use our real name, so I cooked up my I cooked up my pseudonym, which was Minx Manx, if people are interested. And it was great to have minx as my, as my sort of avatar, but I was honest about where I was at in the world, in my in my journey, including that I was getting my doctorate in sexology, and that, you know, when, when I was in the sex industry, I didn't make up a lot about myself. I told a lot of truth about myself. It made me feel safer. I also really think in real life relationships, it feels protective to say what your truth is.

Myisha: Yeah.

Carol: And then if you know, if it's not going over so well with Mr., Ms., Mx., or whoever, right, then you've got some information that you can process which is important to do.

Myisha: Yeah, love it. Okay, I think we gave this person, like a 10 step plan. [Laughs]

Carol: I hope so! And jot down the words you really like because later on, just like you write them on your hand, you only will need to do that for one or two dates. You won't have to look at your hand for very long.

Myisha: Yeah, yeah, I love that. All right. Let's hear our next question. It's about anal play. Let's take a listen.

Question 2: Hi, Myisha. I'm 44 years old and newly single after a 23 year monogamous marriage. I'm a cis woman, but I think my question applies to many people. I've read a lot about prevention of STIs and bacterial infections with anal oral sex, but to be honest, I feel like lots of people are going at it without dental dams or any kind of protection. Any direction on this topic? Seems like a lot of people are doing it and not getting sick.

Myisha: I love this question, because I think a lot of people are thinking the same thing, like, are people just getting sick and not talking about it? Or is there something about rimming anilingus that maybe we've had more panic about in our culture than there really needs to be? And then this also is like, well, how much protection do we need to be thinking about to have safer oral, anal sex?

Carol: I love this question too, and it's, it's a little it's a little fraught too! It's not totally 100 percent.

Myisha: Right.

Carol: When we look to the academics and researchers doing research for us out in the world, we have to remember that a lot of the things that would interest us a lot to have some research about will not be funded by anyone, which is one of the reasons that it's always a little hard to talk about this. And I'm glad that you use the term safer, because some people will be real comfortable with contingent safety like that, you know, like I'm, I did my thing. I asked my person to wash. They washed. I trust them that they did. We're, you know, all right, here we go. And, and that's not a bad idea. Some people fetishize otherwise, sure, but washing. God! Washing good. And the other piece is, is it something that is a different answer for people depending on their health status? And I actually think that that's, that's the part that's a little hard to parse, because if somebody's, well, I don't even want to say they're not in good health, it's just how, how vulnerable are they to what kinds of problems.

Myisha: Right, right. Yeah.

Carol: So that's the set of things. I mean, we don't we don't want E coli getting into open cuts. If our gums are bleeding, does that mean we don't want E coli getting in there either? Yes, it probably does mean that.

Myisha: 100 percent.

Carol: Yeah, it means that so so think in those kinds of terms. Also some, this is a fun fact, fun fact from early HIV AIDS training that I took long ago. I don't hear people saying it all the time, but reminding us that if we're using toothpicks, if we're using sharp dental floss, if we're eating chips right before we go down. Are we doing that? Maybe we're doing that. Some of us are doing that, that it can make those kinds of micro tears in your mouth. So don't do those things. Brush after, but not necessarily before. So I'd love it if you've got other things to add, if you get this kind of question, because it's a worth, really worthwhile question.

Myisha: Yeah, no, I think that the point that you raised about individual risk assessment is probably the biggest one, and that's honestly, if I am being generous to humanity, I think that's what's going on, right? I do, yeah, yeah, fingers crossed, because I hear a lot of tomfoolery. [Laughs] But let's, you know, everything's on a bell curve, right? So I think, I think in general, people are weighing their risk thinking about their own preferences. And you said wash as opposed to douche. Wash versus douche, different things. People may choose to do, one the other, both, right, as a way to and I know for a lot of people, when I talk to them about anal, it's just about feeling more relaxed themself that, you know, that's that they feel, quote, unquote clean, right, you know? And that they can enjoy, like, relax into the experience. And then you'll have people who are like, well, you know, we love doing this. This is a shared activity, and we're always gonna wear dental dams. It's just, it's a no brainer, or we're gonna break out the saran wrap. It's just, there's always gonna be a barrier. It's not a big deal. This is what we do. And then they're gonna be people who don't do any of that.

Carol: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if we do do the barrier, just as I would say, if someone was talking about condom use and pleasure, I would suggest that you put a few drops of lubricant on the, in this case, asshole side of the barrier to make the barrier do some of the fun friction of touch that otherwise it's, you know, then people start saying it's like, putting my, you know, my socks on. No, it's not! Also put a few drops of lube in there, smoosh it around a bit, not a lot of lube, because then the condom slides right off. Or the, you know, or you, you're changing the sheets next time, and there's a wad of plastic wrap down at the bottom, and you're like, oh, I remember that night. That was a lovely night. If you want that kind of reminder, well fine! Different people keep house differently, just as they do anilingus differently. But I also think that it's worth saying that you know, in safer sex land, the more conservative or careful participant needs to get the points so that they aren't going through their sex acts feeling frightened, feeling feeling one down, feeling as though they didn't have a chance to say that they weren't comfortable with that. Never, never, never consider it consensual to have pestered someone into something that they didn't feel like they could get their way out of based on whatever relationship they have with you. So goes for rimming. Goes for all the other things too.

Myisha: I hope we satisfied this person's curiosity. It is, as most things about sex, it's it's nuanced and it's individual, and you should assess your risk and talk about it with your partner, and also think about when you're doing this particular act is it primarily external play, or do you work a lot of internal play into the external start, because that might change the risk assessment that that's going to consider. Because if it's all outside everybody's washy, washy, all right, then people would often find that to be much less risk than if we do a little of this, we do some anal, we do some more. We do, you know, we're dealing with a different kind of sexy time, and more germs showing up in different places than they ordinarily would.

Myisha: Yeah.

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Myisha: We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, we're gonna hear a question about exploring your sexuality in your 60s. Don't go anywhere.

BREAK

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Myisha: And we're back. Carol, let's get into our last question about dating and sex later in life.

Question 3: Hi, Myisha. I'm newly single, and in my 60s. I want to start dating again and explore my sexuality, but I don't know where to start. Do you have any tips?

Myisha: I love this and this person could be my client. [Laughs]

Carol: I think you should start with this stuff, where to start piece, because that you are more expert in that than I am.

Myisha: Well, I love the new energy of being freshly single for whatever reason you know, like it doesn't matter to me. I just think that embarking on something new, that's such a great energy to work with when and some people might think, oh, I need to take some space and pause, and that might be the right thing for you, too. But I think if you're excited, you're genuinely excited to be re-entering the world of dating, I think it's just such a great time to do this work. There are many ways that you can get into dating, but first, I want to know more about what you want.

Carol: Yeah.

Myisha: What's the intention here? I know you said exploring sexuality, but what does that mean for you? You know, are you someone who historically had really vanilla relationships, and there's always been this nagging part of you that wants to get a little kinky, a little wild, then I would probably send you to different places. If you're someone who is looking to develop another long term relationship, then I would probably send you other places. So the intent is really important. And I think that's like it's so crucial for you to have the best experience, because knowing what you want, you will not be as susceptible to getting pulled in 60 different directions based on the wants and the needs of the people that you meet organically, and that that is going to happen to some degree, because we meet people that we're attracted to, and they're interested in different things, and we have to explore a little bit about where our edges and what do we want versus what they want, but going into it knowing, hey, this is generally my goal, but you're really hot, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna take this little detour and see what this is all about. So, yeah, I would start there. I would start with just really clarifying what it is that you want from dating and sex at this stage in your life, because it's going to be different from what it was when you were in your last relationship, and perhaps looking for that, you know, long term relationship that you just ended. What do you think?

Carol: Well, I love all the all the things that you said, because I think it's really true that, you know it's different. You might not have different sex, depending on your ultimate goal, necessarily, but it'll have a different vibe, and it may hit you differently. I don't mean literally there, unless you go to one of those parties. If, if, what you're doing is saying, okay, I am looking for another long term relationship, but I'm not sure that I had the kind of sex that I really could be having, which is a fine question, because we don't, especially people who have been in long term monogamous relationships. And especially the ones who didn't, who didn't have a whole lot of or any sexual experience with other people first, wind up coming out like is that what everybody experiences? You know is "I want to explore my sexuality" a code, a code language for "I would like to have an orgasm now, please." Just in case you had lousy sex education, I really mean it. Go, go read some books, learn some things, listen to some podcasts. Don't pass over Joan Price, the great and wonderful Joan Price, "Naked at Our Age" and and the other books about erotic experience for people who are over 60 and learning to communicate your own space. Whatever it is. I want that, I don't want that, I'm not sure about that, let's try that, I might say no in the middle. It's okay to do that.

Myisha: Yes.

Carol: And especially if you talk about it ahead of time and figure out if who you got here is a date with somebody who will freak the hell out if you stop in the middle then, you know, maybe finish your coffee and go home without them!

Myisha: Yes.

Carol: And I want people to learn as much as they need to learn if they're going to go on the apps around that kind of stuff, to find the apps where it's going to be most likely that they'll find what they are looking for. I don't know the answers to these questions because I can't keep track, but thank god I'm not trying to be on them, but some of you all right? And learning about their differences and you know, folkways, I think, is really, really wise. You can't, at any stage of life, say there's some normal way to do it and I'm just gonna go out there and do it that way, particularly if whatever you think is normal isn't actually pleasing you and giving you what you need. Then then get off that path. Figure out what path you should be on.

Myisha: I was thinking this person on the sexuality side, in addition to reading books and getting, you know, maybe more solid, foundational sex ed. Going to a sex shop!

Carol: We would love to see them at Good Vibrations. If it is one of those, I want an orgasm finally, look, here's a wall of vibrators! Also, most people have two hands, and it's possible that for many there has been no opportunity for a blended orgasm, which either means you get a special toy that has two parts, or you get a toy for each hand and then explore and figure out, you know, if I could, if I could just give everybody permission when I write my set of sex laws, I'm not that kind of person. I probably never will. Maybe I will. Who knows! One of them is going to be it is legal to touch your clit during intercourse.

Myisha: Yes.

Carol: And in many marriages, it has not been legal to do that. But that's that's not right.

Myisha: Punished, even!

Carol: Punished even. And that is so legal. And in fact, it's neurology, and you're going to like the whole idea of neurology a whole lot better when it comes with an orgasm or several at the end. So just try that out!

Myisha: And work with a sex coach.

Carol: That wouldn't hurt either.

Myisha: That could also be really helpful, and as I do dating coaching and sex coaching, because I just firmly believe that you go hand in hand, feel free to reach out and we can have a conversation about maybe working together in the near future.

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Myisha: Carol, we've been collecting dating horror stories over the course of the month from our listeners, and this one really took the cake for me. I'd love to listen to it with you and hear what you think.

Carol: That sounds like fun or terrifying, depending.

Myisha: You know, that's what I want your expert opinion on.

Carol: Yeah, I don't want to speak too soon. Let's hear the story.

VO 4: In 2007 I was 25 and really going through it after a breakup. I was encouraged to join a popular dating website. Apps didn't exist yet. I wasn't sure what to think of finding dates that way, but anything was better than feeling so down and out. Almost every profile I read talked about wanting to find a wife, which really turned me off. So when I met a guy who didn't mention marriage, I agreed to a lunch date. He was nice, and though he wasn't the type of person I usually find myself attracted to, I decided to go on another date to see if maybe there was something more. He invited me to a pub, saying that a friend was having a birthday party there. I thought we'd dip in, mingle and then go on to continue our date alone. Oh no, the friend was his roommate, and there was only one other person in attendance. As we gathered around a small table, I learned that this roommate was a truly atrocious dudebro with the foulest thing spilling out of his mouth. My date didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with this behavior or bringing a date into this. I was young and didn't know what to do, so I drank and drank, holding out hope that I might be able to steal away with my date. Thankfully, we were able to sneak up to the game room, where he got huffy when I kept beating him at pinball. But I was drunk and thought it wouldn't hurt just to fool around for a night. I came on to him and we kissed a few times. At some point, we decided to go back to his place to smoke pot and make out. It was early December, and my city was beginning to experience an unusually intense blizzard. When we arrived, my date was excited to show me his pet iguana, no euphemism, an actual lizard. The iguana, I learned, was let loose to roam the apartment. I was horrified by the sanitation implications that posed, not to mention the health and safety of the iguana. As we roamed the apartment looking for the pet, I passed by his room and noticed that this 27 year old man with an adult job still slept in a twin bed. Yipes. We found the iguana and returned to the living room. Then my date went to his computer, confessing he was excited to put on some mood music, which happened to be Trans Siberian Orchestra Christmas music. I was really starting to die inside and sobering up pretty quickly. When he walked over to me and started to make a move, I realized I didn't like the way he kissed. I made efforts to model what I prefer, but he was more concerned with pressing his boner against me. It didn't take long for me to start pulling away so I could figure out how to get out of this situation. And in response, he tilted his head down a little, widened his eyes, started whimpering like a puppy, and then licked my closed mouth just right up the middle. I was mortified. I told him that I was feeling pretty tired from drinking and smoking and that it was time to go home. He pointed out the snowstorm raging outside, and I told him, nope! Gotta go! A 20 minute drive home became an hour and my windshield wipers barely worked, but nothing was going to stop me from getting the hell out of there. I vowed to make better choices on future dates.

Myisha: I'm so glad they did vow to themselves to.

Carol: That has practically everything, well, not everything, everything. There have been bad, bad, bad dates in the history of the world, but that's got a lot!

Myisha: It's got a lot of elements to that that, you know, I always love a good story. I think this is a fantastic story that this person will have and is so generous to have shared it with us. And I'm guilty of the same thing, where you just stay. You just stay because you're you, you're not sure. You want to give people the benefit of the doubt. You want to have some drinks and unwind and see what happens. And you know, sometimes it ends up like this,

Carol: With an iguana running around.

Myisha: And a man licking your closed mouth.

Carol: Whoa

Myisha: But after whimpering like a puppy

Carol: Whoa. [Laughter] You know I am, I am zooming in on that instant and I'm trying to get inside the head of the guy.

Myisha: Well, presumably he is also drunk and stoned.

Carol: Well, yes and that, that might. That's a good explanation, I think! At least it helps understand, because with any luck, this is not his go to move and if so, and even if he's like, way under there a closet furry and has a dog persona, fursona, doesn't he know that most people don't like some people like dogs to lick them on because they're like it's my dog. I love it, but that's different. This seems like he was really unclear on the concept of what makes a young woman change her mind.

Myisha: Yeah, 100 percent.

Carol: And fortunately, I think it may have been that very thing, that sort of desperate puppy situation that made her go, I'm about to have sex with a desperate puppy. I can't. I just can't. I just can't. And I don't mean that kind of sex with that kind of puppy, but I can't. Also, can the iguana crawl up on the bed? I mean, it just and also, when is the roommate coming home?

Myisha: The awful roommate who was a jerk!

Carol: I was really worried that the awful roommate was gonna double down on the, oh yeah, that would have been, that would have been bad, but this is bad enough.

Myisha: This is certainly bad enough, and I'm glad they made it home safely in that Blizzard. Well, now that we've gotten truly horrified,

Carol: Horrified.

Myisha: It's time for our last segment. I have three questions lined up for you that are all related to sex and relationships, and you get to pick the one that you would like to answer. Are you ready?

Carol: I'm all ears.

Myisha: Great. Here are your choices. A, what's the funniest thing that's ever happened to you during sex? B, over the span of your career, what's the one thing you have seen people get wrong about sex over and over and over again over the years, it's just always the same thing. C, what's the best piece of smut you've ever read?

Carol: Oh, these are all fabulous questions. I think I'm going to pick question two, though. I really think that it's a tie, but these are both the same thing, in a way between there is something that's normal, and everybody will respond to it. I just have to get that clear, do it, and that'll be that. And you can tell what people want without them communicating it to you. And those things are so wrapped up in each other, this idea that we shouldn't have to ask a question, we shouldn't have to tell a desire, a boundary. Those are like, it's there's a simple way that we just start doing it and it happens! When I, when I was doing my press tour for Exhibitionism for the Shy I would get these calls, and it was radio shows in those days especially, I'd get these calls, and they were like, "We're planning to have sex by, you know, getting some kind of an outfit or this or that or the other. You're not supposed to have to plan anything." I'm like, having great sex are you?

Myisha: That's what got us into this mess, yeah.

Carol: Cause the more people who plan and communicate and, you know, get some cute underwear if that's what they're feeling or, I mean, that's not a requirement. It's a thing that you could do and try. And how do you think the people who don't want the things you think are normal get to the point of figuring out what it is they want? They couldn't do normal. They had to explore. They maybe found somebody they could talk to. They found a piece of erotica that spelled it out for them and really spoke to them. I mean, every single one of us has to go on a little journey to get to what is sexual pleasure for us. And then a whole lot of us get perimenopause, and then we go on another little journey. It's, there's nothing wrong with any of that. It's how we learn everything else in the universe! We're like, oh, I don't like spicy food. Ooh, I really like spicy food. Come on! You know, sex is like spicy food or not as spicy as the just talk. Just talk! That's the thing. Just talk! And even if you don't know what you want to say. Say that.

Myisha: Sounds like you got one weird trick that'll work.

Carol: I do have one weird trick that'll work, but everybody has to talk! And of course, as we started, not everybody feels confident in what they're going to say when they start to talk. So I mean, it's, I make it sound so easy, don't I, that's why they have to come and see you!

Myisha: Well, or we have to really think about what's important for people to receive in sex ed. And I think that a big piece of it should be, and could be that we learn how to be sexual communicators.

Carol: Yeah.

Myisha: And I get, I get so many female clients who are like, I just want to meet a guy who knows what to do. Who knows what I like. And of course, we work on that, you know!

Carol: The sexologists have a little joke, someday my prince will come, and so will I, and I think a lot of people believe that that's real.

Myisha: Yeah.

Carol: And what makes it challenging is that for some people, and especially in the early days of a relationship where attraction and, you know, the beautiful brain chemistry that goes along with it are at its highest, it actually seems like that's how it works!

Myisha: Right.

Carol: But I really want people to just be willing to understand that their experience is not gonna be like everybody else's, necessarily, because we're all comparing ourselves to each other, and that just reinforces the normativity business and well, I guess I'm not normal, or I guess the person I was with is normal. Normal is a statistical notion that somebody made up.

Myisha: Right, right.

Carol: We should not be using that word for ourselves, especially not in bed or wherever you do it.

Myisha: Well, thank you for being not normal with me today. [Laughs]

Carol: I don't think I could be normal if I tried. I gave that up quite a while back, and I'm all the happier for it.

Myisha: Me too, and I feel that from you, and I appreciate that about you. So thank you so much for being here and giving such wonderful advice before you go Carol, where can people find you so that they can stay in touch with you and learn about your work.

Carol: Well, one of the places that people can find me, of course, is Good Vibrations, where I'm the staff sexologist and the curator of the Antique Vibrator Museum. And if you go to the to good vibes dot com and you go all the way down to the bottom, where they put all the little addresses and links, there's meet our sexologist down there and they, they'll, they'll be able to find me that way and find a little bio of me too. I'm on Twitter.

Myisha: You have a newsletter too.

Carol: I do have a newsletter. The Center for Sex and Culture, my nonprofit, has a newsletter. And I would just like to say that if people would like to ping me at carolqueenphd@gmail.com, and say, "Would you put me on that newsletter? I'm over 18." Please don't lie. Then, yeah. And then what happens with that is my stuff, the center's stuff, interesting things that other people are doing. I put the Good Vibes events on there. And so especially people who live in the Bay Area might find some things that they might want to do. Yeah, all those places

Myisha: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here.

Carol: I'm so glad to have had a chance to hang with you! Delightful.

Myisha: Yeah, such a pleasure! Such a pleasure.

MUSIC

Myisha: And thank you for listening. Next time on How's Your Sex Life? Brandon Kyle Goodman comes back to help me answer all of your questions.

Brandon Kyle Goodman: I think sometimes people think, oh, non monogamy, polyamory, I have to have five girlfriends and 10 boyfriends. Baby, no.

Myisha: If you want advice about sex or dating, remember to drop us an email or voice memo at sexlife@kcrw.org, we'll keep you anonymous. How's Your Sex Life? is a KCRW original podcast. Our producer is Andrea Bautista. Our executive producer is Gina Delvac. This episode was mixed by Phil Richards. Our music was created by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Special thanks to Women's Audio Mission, Myriam-Fernanda Alcala Delgado, Arnie Seipel and Jennifer Ferro. And a big shout out to our voice actors. We'll let them introduce themselves on the way out.

VO 1: This is Myriam-Fernanda, thanks for listening.

VO 2: This is Gina Delvac, if you liked this episode, share it with a friend.

VO 3: This is Ariana Morgenstern. See you next week for another episode of KCRW's How's Your Sex Life?

VO 4: This is Emma Rothenberg, and I hope you have a spooky Halloween!