Sex isn't my thing Full Transcript

Myisha Battle: Hey! It's Myisha. Before we get into today's episode, do you remember a while back we heard a question from someone who was struggling with their desire to stay single or settle down. Well, his name is Max, and he sent us a follow up!

Max: To everyone at How's Your Sex Life? It was my 30th birthday when I woke up and got my question answered by Myisha Battle and I thought this is the best gift ever! I was swept up in the birthday excitement and now I have some time to write a response. To Myisha and Tracy, thank you for taking the time to discuss my question. I've been reflecting on why I might be relationship averse and this notion of poking holes into potential partners. I think you're both correct. Getting a professional to talk about past experiences that cause fear and anxiety over relationships is sound advice. My goal now that I'm 30 is unraveling this mystery of who I am and changing for the better. I have oodles of gratitude for all of you. Thanks.

Myisha: Wow! Thank you, Max. That was so great to hear and it's always just so heartwarming to hear that what we do is helping people. So if I've answered your question in the past, dear listeners, I would love to hear your feedback about how we did on giving you some advice, and of course, if you took advice from us, let us know how it turned out. Send me a voice memo at sex life at kcrw dot org, and we might feature it in a future episode. Okay, back to the show!

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Myisha: Welcome back to KCRW's How's Your Sex Life? Your sex and dating survival guide. I'm your host Myisha Battle, and I'm here to remind you that gender is a spectrum, period. Today we're going to hear your questions about differences in desire and coming out as non binary. And I'm here with Tuck Woodstock. Hey Tuck!

Tuck Woodstock: Hi, thanks for having me!

Myisha: Yeah, of course, I'm excited to have you, and I'm excited to introduce you as well. You are a journalist and an educator. You're also the host of the podcast Gender Reveal, where you try to figure out what the hell gender is through interviews with non-binary and transgender artists and activists. So glad you're here and I can't wait to get your take on our questions today. But before we get into it, I have one question for you.

Tuck: Yes.

Myisha: How's your sex life?

Tuck: It comes and it goes, you know? Yeah, I feel like most of the time, it's not something that I think about very much. And then every once in a while, I will kind of remind myself that sex exists, or will be reminded and it'll be like, oh, that could be fun for a while, and then we kind of do that for a while, and then I'm like, okay, I'm busy. I have other things to do. Like, it's not a main motivator in my life, the way that I feel like it's a main motivator in many people's lives. A lot of people are making a lot of choices around who they can hook up with, and it's simply just, like, not in my top five for me. So it comes and goes, you know, if I'm visiting my girlfriend, we're having a great time. If I'm going on some fun dates, we're having a great time. If I'm not doing that for six months, no problem. You know?

Myisha: Has that been the case for you, like, historically?

Tuck: Yeah, yeah. I think there's something reassuring about the fact that it's like so possible anytime I do want it, like it's like we live in 2024 Grindr exists, right? Like, at any moment, I could be fucking and sucking, and that means that I don't most of the time, because it's not like a scarcity, like it's just like it's there when I want it, and most of the time I don't need it. I have other things to do.

Myisha: Okay, respect! And so I don't know, like, what's your favorite pastime, since you're not fucking and sucking?

Tuck: [Laughs] I love to go to shows! I love to go to all kinds of shows. I go out and about in some way most nights a week. That can be a comedy show, that can be a drag show, that can be a baseball game, that can be a theater performance, that could be a movie occasionally, that could be just going out with a bunch of friends, that could be trivia, which is not a show, but it kind of becomes a spectacle. And, yeah, I really just like going out and doing something new every night. So going out and having sex with someone new can be the thing that is new that I'm doing that night, but it's going to be one of the things in that rotation.

Myisha: Yes, I love going to shows alone. So good.

Tuck: It's the best. You don't have to negotiate where you're going to sit, or, like, what, how long you're going to be there. It's like I'm in charge!

Myisha: Totally! Totally and I like to find a little nook where I have my space. I can't with the crowds too much, but enough about me. Let's get started. And just as a reminder, our questions are voiced by actors to keep everyone anonymous. Let's listen to our first question.

Question 1: Hey, Myisha! My partner and I are both queer and in a hetero normie relationship with what feels like a rather drastic desire discrepancy. We had a wild honeymoon phase, but after we moved in together, everything changed drastically. I feel like maybe I was love bombed or sex bombed. Every time I try to bring up the subject, she shuts me down in ways that often feel hurtful. Physical touch is my primary love language, and sex represents a large component of that. I thrive on communication, and I'm open to discussing any ideas for increasing our shared enjoyment of sex. These offers to talk are usually met with her assertion that she's 99 percent asexual, which I find difficult to trust, since she enjoys sexy music and smutty fantasy romance. It seems to me our communication is breaking down and I don't know how to bring up my needs without inducing an angry, panicked response from her. During a recent conversation, she compared me to a bomb on a timer. Every time we have sex, the timer resets. It's pretty hurtful to hear myself compared to a deadly piece of clockwork by the person I love. I have resigned myself to a sexless relationship for the time being, but I still hope we can figure this out.

Myisha: So this person's looking for some support here. I saw, I saw you making a lot of faces. [laughs]

Tuck: There's a lot of stuff going on in here!

Myisha: There's a lot. I think at the core, we've got a really big communication issue, yeah?

Tuck: Right, yeah. I mean, the core of it is not something you can really advise your way out of if the situation is this person doesn't want to have a conversation with me, that's not something that you can control by communicating less or more, at least not as far as we can possibly know given this question, right? Like, if you are to a point where you're like, I want to have a conversation about this, and this person doesn't, you can't control them. You can only control you, so you will be stuck until you can have a conversation. But there are a couple things that I feel like we could talk about with a little bit more help. And one thing that was surprising to me was when they said, I don't believe that my partner's asexual because she enjoys fantasy and sexy music, and it's like, well, that's not how that works. Asexuality is just not feeling attracted to other people in a sexual way. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy fantasies around sex or music about sex. It just means when it comes down to the doing of it, you're not feeling it necessarily. I could, for example, really enjoy listening to podcasts about cooking and watching YouTube videos about cooking and watching movies with delicious feasts. And then if someone was like, Tuck, do you want to cook a meal? I'd be like, no, I don't want to do that. That sounds bad to me. There's a huge difference between thinking about something and wanting to do it on any particular timeline. So that was the first thing that stuck out to me is like, well I at least understand how to get a little bit clearer on this perhaps.

Myisha: Mhm, yeah. I think this is something that is probably really confusing for them, given that there was this intense period of sex at the beginning of the relationship, in the honeymoon phase. And to me, that just highlights potentially, that this person is graysexual so there are certain contexts under which sex is appealing to them. And it might be that this person in that new relationship, energy space has enough interest in sex to make that an option for them. Another thing we can talk about is this, this ticking time bomb, because I hear this a lot in my practice as a sex coach, and it's something that I've come to actually ask my clients if they feel some version of this, like every time you have sex, there's like a timer that resets between, you know now, and when their you know partner is going to want sex again, and for the lower libido partner, that's what it feels like. So I think she's done a good job of expressing what his desire feels like for her. Is it hurtful? Sure, but I think she's done her best in trying to communicate, hey, this is what your need for this type of connection feels like for me.

Tuck: I'm always interested by the sort of low libido, high libido, low sex drive, high sex drive pairings when they don't bring up the concept of non monogamy in the question? Because, to me, like the issue of this question is communication, a possible solution is you're not interested in sex. I am interested in sex. We still want to continue our romantic relationship, or our partnership, or whatever it is. Let's do that and look at like other ways that I can get this need met that's not involving you in something that you don't feel interested in doing. And I'm not saying that works perfectly for everyone, but I'm interested if that was ever a point of discussion, because it wasn't mentioned in the question.

Myisha: Right, I think this person expressed that their primary love language is, you know, physical touch, and that sex is a part of that. But could there be a way in which that need is, is, you know, delegated to somebody else you know, because this, this connection that he's trying to get from this, you know, primary partner, it's just not happening, and they've resigned themselves to just not having sex, which is inherently denying their own needs. So, you know, there's got to be, as you said, maybe some alternative to this. And in the past, when you know questions of like, should I open my relationship if this person doesn't want to have sex as much as me, has come up in the past, like we talked about, even just having the conversation of, should we consider this could be quite illuminating for both of them.

Tuck: Yeah, absolutely.

Myisha: You know, it would, it would certainly alarm the lower desire person, potentially asexual person, to the fact that this is really serious for the other person, and that there are needs on both sides that are not getting met. More communication is the key.

Tuck: Yes, absolutely.

Myisha: Unfortunately, because that seems to be their primary struggle.

Tuck: Right.

Myisha: So I guess to help with that as well, if the person is open to couples counseling, maybe a third party to facilitate these conversations, and maybe someone who, not maybe someone, someone who is maybe more a sex therapist, someone who is well versed in orientation diversity, all of these things and relationship diversity, so that they can guide you potentially in the process of opening your relationship.

Tuck: Yeah, I do feel bad being one of those people who is like, well, have you tried therapy? Have you tried therapy? So I try to not, but if someone doesn't know how to have a conversation or two people, if two people don't know how to have that conversation together, getting a third party in to facilitate it does seem like the wisest move.

Myisha: Yeah, some people kind of scoff at that in the early stages of relationships, because they're like, well, we're so new, like, if we need therapy, what does that say about us? But sometimes, sometimes there's just the deeper you get into a relationship, the more you realize that there are kind of essential elements of each other that just don't quite work, or you don't have strategies for yet, and having that third party can help. So this person who struggles to communicate more about sex, we maybe need more information about why, and therapy can be a great place to learn that, and maybe just understanding why it's difficult for this person to talk more openly about sex will give the question asker some compassion and patience. We don't know, but I would love to hear any follow up from this couple about how they're doing and maybe what has changed with just hearing us talk about these different areas of opportunity for them, and then, yeah, if they decide to go to therapy for this, I think that would be great. Our next question is from a listener whose sex life is being impacted by politics.

Question 2: Hey Myisha. My husband and I have different political views. I'm finding that the more we disagree, the more it kills my desire to have sex. Please help!

Myisha: I actually just had a client session a couple weeks ago where this came up. We had some tension around the male partner being an undecided voter in the upcoming election. So this one kind of hits home for me. What do you think about it?

Tuck: I mean, there are a few buckets of, like political disagreement, and there are semi innocuous, sort of, I'm gonna vote yes on this bill to fund the zoo, and you're gonna vote no to fund at the zoo. And we can argue about the ethics of zoology, or whatever. Zoology is probably different, you know what I mean, of zoos. And then there's like, oh, is genocide good or bad? Is criminalizing healthcare for huge portions of the population good or bad? And I think if you are close to someone who is like, yeah, I feel great about people dying. I don't care if people have their basic needs taken away. My worry would not be like, how can we continue to have sex? My worry would be like, what is the future of our relationship? What does it mean to be in partnership with this person. But again, who knows? Maybe it could be like, I like this candidate for city council, and you like this candidate, and they're both making strong efforts to reduce homelessness, and then you'd be like, okay, slay, you know? So it's really hard to know how seriously to take it. And for me, I would just be like, I need to figure out, like, why this is bothering me and what it means for my relationship before I figure out, like, what it means for my sex life, or if I can, like, turn my brain off in order to continue to hook up with my husband.

Myisha: Mm, hmm, yeah, I mean, it's upsetting enough to this person where it's making them feel disconnected.

Tuck: Yeah

Myisha: That's kind of what I'm hearing. Yeah, so I would say it's probably more intense than the zoo or the representative.

Tuck: Totally.

Myisha: But yeah, I mean, we're all in this moment, right? I mean, where families are really uncomfortable with each other and unsure about whether to go to, you know, holiday dinners and spend time with people who they really can't communicate openly and lovingly with anymore because they know something that they can't unknow about a loved one. So there are definite options for this. One is you cannot talk about politics. You won't ask how they're voting. You won't talk about current events. Personally, that's not a relationship that I would opt into, but it may work for some people, if there are other things that ignite this couple and would make connection feel easier for them. The other is to continue to talk about your differences, to continue to explore why the issues that you feel divided on are so important to each of you, and maybe try to come to some middle ground understanding that may shift things for you. But then there's what you mentioned earlier, Tuck that this could be something that makes you reevaluate the person that you married, and that's valid too.

Tuck: Yeah, if your body or your brain is giving you a signal that something doesn't feel right with being intimate with this person, I would listen to those signals and see where those lead, instead of trying to shut them down for the peace of your marriage. Because long term that's not a strategy that's working for most of us is to kind of just shove it down. [Laughs]

Myisha: You know what I was thinking, though, kind of piggybacking off of the previous question, maybe opening the marriage? [Laughter] And having sex with someone whose political views you align with. I'm serious! Like, what if that is the solution?

Tuck: That's so funny. Just mapping the polycule onto the alignment chart at the left, right, libertarian, authoritarian, just hitting every quadrant, seeing what it does for you. That's so funny. Yeah, we'll see! Give it a try, why not?

Myisha: Yeah, I want to make sure that this person has as many options as possible, so let's not leave polyamory out of it.

Tuck: Totally!

Myisha: Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll get into one more question about coming out as non binary. Don't go anywhere!

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Myisha: And we're back. Let's get into our last question.

Question 3: I recently discovered that I feel most comfortable identifying as non binary. My gender presentation hasn't changed much, so I'm worried about coming out to my friends and family when who they see isn't any different. I've played around with more androgynous looks in the past, but I didn't feel like that worked for me. Any tips on helping people understand my new identity when it might not match what they picture in their mind?

Myisha: Yeah. Any initial thoughts about this?

Tuck: My initial thought is, you're responsible for yourself, and I don't want to hear this person taking on too much of the burden to effectively educate other people on what non binary might look like, because if they are not interested in learning, you're not going to get that far. And they might not know they're interested in learning until you come out to them. So, it's a little tricky. However, if you do come out to them and they are interested in learning, there are all sorts of places that you can point them to to see the broad array of gender expression in the world. It depends a little bit on age. There's a great podcast called Gender Reveal that has so many episodes about what non binary can look like. There are sort of infinite people you can follow on Instagram and Tiktok and see examples there. There are actors and musicians of all kinds that you can point to, sort of more famous people that maybe even you know, older people might see at some point in the world. I remember I was talking to my mom about non binary people many years ago, and she said, oh yes, I saw one on Ellen! And it's like, totally, you know, like maybe even your parents or grandparents saw them on Ellen! So do not take this on too much for yourself, because we are very much in a you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink situation where it is really up to everyone individually on how much they want to work on reconceptualizing gender for themselves, that's a big project, and it's not one that people can really be sort of forced into, nor is it something that you can do easily in an afternoon. But I think that if you do come out to them, they will have more motivation to learn more about what you're talking about. And if they say, you know, what does this mean? How could you be non binary when you look this way, you can be prepared to point to all these other examples of all these other ways that it can look to be non binary, because ultimately there is no one way to look non binary. It's sort of nuts that we have somehow, collectively as a society, created a third gender called non binary, when really non binary is supposed to be like not the number one and not the number 100 but the number is two through 99 and then also past 100 and lower than zero, and also on, like, a third of third dimensional plane, you know? And like, there's no way to encompass that, and it takes people a minute to wrap their minds around that sometimes. And then just the last thing I want to say about like, my presentation hasn't shifted, so should I come out to them is not always, but often, your presentation and your desires and your interests might change over, like, months and years of coming out. And so there's no real way to know what will happen in the future, and there's also not a great way to explore that stuff if you're trying to stand to the radar with people. So, yeah, just kind of, if you can, if you feel safe, telling people, hey, I'd like to use these words for me now. I'd like to use these pronouns, or I'd like to not be referred to as a woman, or whatever you may be. Just try it, feel it out!

Myisha: It's a process!

Tuck: Mhm.

Myisha: And this person seems to have only recently come to this realization for themself that they're non binary, and is sort of from this question, I can kind of feel that they're sorting out what that means for them, and I love how you brought in that that may change for them, and that's okay, because that is encompassed in the non binary identity. It's so many things, and it can be so many things, and it will be so many things over time, and yeah, it's not this person's job to educate people, but to sort of hold firmly that this is who they are, and be open and available for how that will morph and change over time as they become more comfortable in this identity. Love it.

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Myisha: Well, it's time for our last segment. I have three questions lined up for you that are all related to sex and dating, and you get to pick which one you want to answer.

Tuck: Great.

Myisha: Here are your choices. A, have you ever had a crush bubble burst after you got to know the person better and what happened? B, what is a gender euphoric sex or dating experience you've had, or C which celeb gives you gender envy and you have a crush on?

Tuck: I mean, it's gonna have to be A. Shout out to the gender euphoria girlies, but I'm simply vibing. My friend, Hil Malatino, wrote a book called On Being Trans and Feeling Bad and we talked a lot about not necessarily feeling bad, but not framing everything in terms of euphoria or dysphoria for us particularly, but rather just we are vibing, you know?

Myisha: Mmmm yes.

Tuck: We don't need the high highs and the low lows. We are just doing okay all the time, so I can't speak to that necessarily. But in terms of crushes bubbles breaking? All the time, constantly! I'm very picky. I mean, I'm also very, very petty. Like, I was talking to someone recently and I said that I was from Oregon, and they asked if that was in the Midwest. And I was like, look, not to, like, penalize someone for being sort of like a child left behind in our education system, but like, I don't really know what to do with this. All the time! I did have a crush on someone for a long time, and then I found out that they didn't know who Ellie the Elephant was, and if you live in New York and are gay, you would know that Ellie the Elephant is the mascot of the women's basketball team here, and is like an absolute, you know, gay diva. So as soon as this person said they didn't know who Ellie the Elephant was, I said, haha, I thought you were gay. And that's how I found out that they didn't describe themselves as gay. Ellie the Elephant saved my life in that moment, you know, so like, well! Shout out to her, looking out for me. All the time! Like, I think that for me, I am sort of a slow burn, like, it takes me a while to get to know someone and feel comfortable around them a lot of the time. And because of the sort of swipey, swipe app culture that we're in, it's so easy to look for like, the one thing to be like, thank god I don't have to think about this person anymore. You know? Oh, they missed three of my jokes in a row? That doesn't mean that I'm funny or not funny, but it does mean it's not gonna work, because I'm just getting the L in the chat. You know? [Laughter]

Myisha: It's not working for you.

Tuck: Yeah, it's just something's not connecting through no fault of either of us. I mean, even, like, oh, I'm super into you. Oh, wait, you live in, like, the Upper West Side. Well, I'm not looking for a long distance relationship right now, you know, I'm in Bed–Stuy, like, I can't deal with that, so all the time! So petty, and that's fine. It means that I, again, have a lot of time for other things. [Laughter]

Myisha: Is there one quality that someone could have that you think would trump that feeling of pettiness, like, is there an attribute that maybe you're looking for that would make you want to go to the Upper West Side?

Tuck: Sure, I think that these are all, like I said, kind of easy outs when I'm feeling, like, on the fence about someone and I really just am looking for an excuse to get out of the situation where I'm like, ah, great, my convenient excuse is that this person you know has never seen a map or whatever, but obviously, if I was super into them other than that, I would be like, here's a map, girly. We've got this, no problem. So I think the qualities that I'm looking for, honestly, it's like, not healthy, necessarily. But I just really love someone who I am always trying to keep up with, not in terms of scheduling, but in terms of just like, what are they thinking? What are they thinking about? What are they interested in? Are they doing new stuff all of the time? Do they have new thoughts on a topic that I've thought about a bunch, that I've never had those thoughts before? A friend of mine, who I used to hook up with also thinks about gender and trans people all the time, but through a medical lens, because they work in medicine. And so I would get to talk about all of my thoughts about transsexuality. And then she could come in and be like, and here's what I know from being a doctor of transsexuality. And it was like, great, this is incredible! And she also was like, this is incredible. We love to have, like, overlapping special interests, but in a way that we are both like constantly learning from each other. I won't speak for her, maybe she's never learned anything from me in her life, but yeah. And so I think feeling challenged and feeling inspired and feeling motivated is what I look for. And so if I am excited about that, then I will overlook a lot of things.

Myisha: I have a lot of clients who are similar and like, they really need that mental stimulation before they can invest, you know, and that's something that does require, like, time. Like you said, you're a slow burn and, you know, it doesn't surprise me too that, like, that relationship you had was, like, we started out as friends, it seems, and then the romantic component kind of grew from that, because you're like, this is fantastic.

Tuck: Oh yeah. I mean, I am a person. I love to be friends with someone for years, and then we'll be like, should we have sex a few times and kind of see how it goes? You know, it's, I love that dynamic of relationship, not necessarily even in a dating way, just in a like, we're friends and sometimes we hook up. I love that personally. I know it doesn't work for everyone, and it also doesn't work for every friendship, but it's so convenient when it does work out.

Myisha: Facts.

Tuck: You can just like, have a normal hang where you plan something, and then you're like, and next time we see each other, it'll be fun and sexy. And then the time after that. We'll eat a sandwich at the bar. [Laughter]

Myisha: Well, thank you so much Tuck for being here. I really appreciate you and the perspective that you brought to these questions today. If people want more of you, where can they find you?

Tuck: So the Gender Reveal podcast actually has its own advice episodes. It has many of them. So if you love this sort of flavor of unhinged wisdom you're getting here, imagine even more of it on the Gender Reveal podcast. And then also, I have a book out that I edited called 2 Trans 2 Furious, that is naturally 40 trans people writing about the Fast and Furious franchise with a cover of Vin Diesel animorphing into a car. So if you need to see that to live, just Google it! It also is really horny. So if you're in the horny spectrum of people listening to this podcast, it could be beautiful for you.

Myisha: And where can people find you on social media?

Tuck: Oh, who knows! I'm on Instagram at Tuck Woodstock Jr. And then I, like, technically, have a Twitter account, that I use occasionally at Tuck Woodstock.

Myisha: Yeah, okay. We all understand the Twitter conundrum.

Tuck: Totally! [Laughter] Biannually I say something, yeah.

Myisha: Yeah, yeah, it's fine. All right. Well, thanks so much Tuck. This has been a pleasure.

Tuck: Thank you.

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Myisha: Well, it's officially spooky season, and what's spookier than a date gone wrong? All month long, we're collecting your dating horror stories. What's the worst date you've ever gone on? What's an experience you've had being catfished? I want to hear about it all. Just drop us a voice memo at sex life at kcrw dot org and we might feature it on the show.

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Myisha: 'How's Your Sex Life?' is a KCRW original podcast. Our producer is Andrea Bautista, with help from Miriam-Fernanda Alcala Delgado. Our executive producer is Gina Delvac. This episode was mixed by Hope Bush. Our music was created by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Special thanks to Women's Audio Mission, Arnie Seipel and Jennifer Ferro. And a big shout out to our voice actors. We'll let them introduce themselves on the way out.

VO 1: This is Michael Joson. Thanks for listening.

VO 2: This is Mia Fernandez. If you like this episode, share it with a friend.

VO 3: This is Myriam-Fernanda. See you next week for another episode of 'KCRW's How's Your Sex Life?'