Polyamory for Beginners full transcript

[COLD OPEN]
How do you open up a monogamous relationship?

How do you find a sexually compatible partner at age 46?

How do I deal with a closeted wife that just came out?

Myisha Battle: From KCRW, it's How's Your Sex Life? and I am Myisha Battle.

[INTRO]
Myisha Battle: I'm here today with Ashley Ray of the Earwolf podcast TV, I Say. Hey Ashley!

Ashley Ray: Hi!

Myisha Battle: How's it going?

Ashley Ray: Good! I'm so happy to be here. I love talking about my sex life and sex lives in general.

Myisha Battle: Well that is fantastic news, because I have a question for you. How's your sex life?

Ashley Ray: Pretty good right now, honestly, I don't wanna brag, but it's I'm in a ...

Myisha Battle: Brag!

Ashley Ray: Yeah, I'm in a high right now. You know, I met someone earlier this year, and we're hitting that, you know, we've been in a relationship like nine months. And I feel like that's when you are like, oh, I'm comfortable with you completely. We can just like spend all Sunday doing weird sex stuff and getting to know each other.

Myisha Battle: Yes.

Ashley Ray: And so I'm right in that honeymoon phase.

Myisha Battle: Yes. You're in the sex honeymoon phase where like, Sundays still involves sex. Yeah. You're not like going to brunch with friends and like, planning house projects

Ashley Ray: Yeah. I'm not like, can we just like sit quietly and work next to each other? I have so many things I need to get done for the week. It's like, oh, yeah, sex is still exciting. We're getting to know each other and what we like and so yeah, good.

Myisha Battle: I love that. Well, are you somebody that people go to for sex advice? Is that something that you're like known for?

Ashley Ray: Yes. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I've always been very open about sex in my writing, in my comedy, and then I'm also polyamorous, so I'm always writing about that experience. I did a project this year called 52 First Dates, where I went on a new date every year or every week for a year. Just because yeah, I wanted to meet a lot of people. I'm poly so it's easy to date a lot, and so I think because of that friends have always like come to me to be like he did this, is this weird? Like, should I do this one? Like, what does she like? So I love it.

Myisha Battle: Okay, good. Well, you know that I'm a sex coach and the premise of the show is we do try to give advice to our listeners who write in they have, you know, sexual quandaries, dating quandaries. It sounds like you are very well versed in these areas, and are going to be able to provide a good perspective.

Ashley Ray: I hope so. I hope so. Yeah. I've had a messy dating life.

Myisha Battle: Same

Ashley Ray: Lotta ups, downs, like engagements.

Myisha Battle: Ah! Engagements?

Ashley Ray: Yeah.

Myisha Battle: Plural?

Ashley Ray: Plural. Like it's been a lot. So I hope from that chaos I can give guidance to others.

Myisha Battle: I believe that you can. I believe in you.

Myisha Battle: Thank you.

Myisha Battle:
Well, let's get to our first question.

[Question #1]
Hey, Myisha. How do you move from a monogamous relationship to an open relationship?

Myisha Battle: Opening up....

Ashley Ray: Opening up! A very good book. You can read about this topic by Tristan Taormino.

Myisha Battle: Thank you! Thank you!!

Ashley Ray: I met her in college. I have a signed copy!

Myisha Battle: I actually went to the feminist porn show that she hosted in New York.

Ashley Ray: Oh my gosh yeah!

Myisha Battle: Yeah! In 2012 I want to say 2013. Fantastic.

Ashley Ray: Fantastic. And I will say that is the book that made me go from a monogamous relationship with my fiance where I was engaged, my first engagement, and we read that and decided to open our relationship up. This was about 10 years ago, and I've been polyamorous ever since. Which I think is kind of the first question and that book is really good about is letting you know that there's a lot of different kinds of polyamory, open relationships, there's a lot of ways that can look. I think today sometimes it gets so simplified, where you look at TikTok and think polyamory means you have to have like two girlfriends, three boyfriends, and a whole like, you know, polycule that you all want to live together with. No, it doesn't have to be that way. You can have a primary and you two maybe just go swinging together once a month out. There's so many ways and that book does such such a good job of just laying it all out that it is your journey. So I think you know, before you open up before you are both on those apps, letting everybody in, really know why you're doing this. What are your personal reasons for wanting to open up the relationship? And by that I mean yours, your reasons, not your partners! Don't don't if you're, if one of you feels like you're pushing this more than the other, maybe that's a separate conversation of "Hey, why?" But I think personally, you should have an idea of, you know, is it for me, it's that I love relationships. I love being in love. I am not someone who really feels like jealousy. I love compersion. I love seeing my partner happy. I love knowing that like my partner has a tapestry of partners who support them that I'm like, included with. So for me that's like central and how I wanted to, like express my love in the world and in my relationship styles. So, you know, ask yourself those questions. Is it about that? Is it about discovering more about your own sexuality? You know, and what you want from a primary, or you know what your monogamous relationship will be like, because I think when people open up, they don't realize that that main relationship is going to change. You know, I think sometimes people are like, we're just gonna open up and nothing will change between us, and then the next thing you know, you're like, hey, it's Thursday, this is usually when we watch Grey's Anatomy together, you're not here, you're on some date. And it's like, yeah, things have changed. So that's another part is really asking yourself, what changes you're comfortable with? What are things you want to maintain? Is it hey, we got to keep our Thursday night Grey's Anatomy dates, that's so important to me, before you rush in,

Myisha Battle: Yeah! I've actually worked with couples who have come to me looking for support. And that's another thing I can offer is that books and reading are are great. And sometimes you may need a third party to help you sort of navigate this, it can be really helpful. And by third party, yes, that can be a paid for professional but it can also just be community.

Ashley Ray: Yeah

Myisha Battle: It can be, you know, you've actually started going to ethical, non-monogamy meetups, and you're talking with other people about the real day-to-day aspects of what non-monogamy looks like for them. You know, that kind of reconnaissance can be really helpful. But when I work with my clients, yeah, sometimes it is, it is the thing that is the last sort of trial of their relationship before it ends. And I think that kind of does come back to your why question, you know, why are we doing this? Is it to, quote unquote, save the relationship because we've tried everything else and maybe this is the last thing that is the fix? Or is there something innate about who we are and the nature of our relationship that basically requires us to explore this and to really give it a go.

Ashley Ray: Yeah and that will strengthen our relationship, and our bond, and our honesty, and communication together. You know, I think that is an open relationship at its best is that you feel even more comfortable sharing being open with the people you're seeing, because that's what it requires. If you're gonna, polyamory is not about keeping secrets. It is all about the ethical honesty, and even being upfront about the things you don't want to know.

Myisha Battle: Yeah.

Ashley Ray: You being unafraid to say like, I don't want to know if you go out with this person, or this or you know, you can't date my friends or coworkers, having those tough conversations and if you can't do that, you know, maybe you're using this as an escape, as a way to hide the real problem. I do think a lot of people use polyamory as a way to get out of their relationships. But yeah, I think that'll just always be the case.

Myisha Battle: Yeah, it's true. I think that has it has been in an unethical way and it can be in an ethical way too.

Ashley Ray: Even in an ethical, yeah, I know people who have read every book, who like have all the perfect advice, and still meets, they met someone else and decided, like, no, actually, I do want monogamy with this other person.

Myisha Battle: Right!

Ashley Ray: That happens and I think that's also another just fear that a lot of people who open the relationships are aware of and know could happen. And frankly, there's no answer to that, like I, you know, that that's something where right now I'm dating someone who has like a primary and at any point, he could be like, my primary doesn't want me to see you anymore, and you don't have that control. So you have to be comfortable with things like that when you, if you're in a solo poly or poly relationship, or you don't have a primary. And on the other side, if you're opening your relationship, what kind of people are you dating? What kind of people are your partners dating? Because you two might have every agreement and rule in the world, but if your partner is going out and dating someone who wants a child, a house with someone, and they've decided your partner is their partner now, that's something you're also going to have to think about, like do you only date other poly people who are in relationships? Do you only date people who are looking for casual relationships and you don't ever take it like up that relationship escalator? You know, because that can be the tough part.

Myisha Battle: It can be and I think that's a lot of the, I guess, confusion for folks because when they imagine what opening their relationship might be they have this one vision and they like you said may spend a lot of time on relationship agreement. So I'm hearing from you you're you're pro relationship agreements.

Ashley Ray: Oh yeah!

Myisha Battle: Yeah.

Ashley Ray: Get the relationship agreement because you're not going to find have an answer for everything. You're not going to talk through every scenario that will come up, but having an initial guideline will let you know down the line when things do come up because they will. If your partner has like a metamour that they've been seeing and say they've been together now six, seven months, and now they're saying to each other, you know, to each other, we want to stop using protection, we are just seeing each other. Are you as the primary okay with that? Is that something that you talked about in your agreement beforehand? Do they know that's something they would have to run by you? Is it not something they have to run by you? Those are things you're gonna want to figure out cuz it's gonna come up, you know. And I think one of my steadfast rules now is, I don't date inexperienced poly couples or people who are inexperienced in polyamory, which for me, as a solo poly person is just more beneficial because I like I don't have a primary for me, it's like, I don't want to date some couple that just like, you know, read "The Ethical Slut" last week. And is like, "We started a Feeld profile, we want to talk to you. Hi!" You know, I like to talk to date people who like have been doing it for a few years, who have been in the lifestyle, who know the kind of terminology. But I think as a couple opening up, you can find those people like you said, at poly meetups. You can find solo poly women, people who are in relationships, where they date other people who have that experience and are happy to guide you like that is the thing, it is a poly community truly, like I have not been in any other I would say, community that is as supportive and similar to this, that is so like relationship and sex focused in a way where you know, you go to these meetups and you will make friends who you know, will be your friends for life, who you can text and be like, "Oh, I don't know about this person I'm seeing like, we have great sex, but blah, blah." So I would say don't be afraid to form those friendships, to go out and actually do it because they're gonna be the people who show you like the realities of the lifestyle, who like can warn you about people in the scene where you live, or you know, "Hey, this guy like perpetually lies about to his wife about such and such." Those are things honestly you have to know and be aware of because I am telling you there like so many like poly, and not just gender but like husbands or people who are gonna be unethical.

Myisha Battle: Poly shady.

Ashley Ray: Poly shady! Who want to take advantage of like you and your new exploration in this world. So don't be afraid to like find someone who like you can be under their wing who you can be you know, if there's someone whose relationship you admire and their relationship style, that you can ask questions. And even if you don't have like poly meetups where you live there's so many online communities now. Just so so many. So many people on poly TikTok who are presenting, I think, positive examples of what polyamory can look like. But I think it does require a lot more reading, conversation than people realize. And I think people want it to be as simple as like, hey, we opened up, we downloaded our apps, and here we go. But you know, really ask yourself what you value in your relationship and how you are going to strengthen it and protect it through this new relationship style.

Myisha Battle: In our chat, you just dropped a couple terms that might need some defining so first off compersion. What is that?

Ashley Ray: So compersion is sort of the opposite of jealousy. It's when it makes you feel good to see your partner feel good to experience things. It doesn't even just have to be a partner. It can be friends, when my friends when I get so happy. So it's sort of seen in polyamory circles as what you should hope to attain in your relationship is compersion. Obviously, you will still deal with jealousy, jealousy is still valid and very real, but when you work through that jealousy it can open itself up to compersion, where you sort of come out on the other end understanding, you know, why your partner needs this, how it benefits both of you. And then hopefully there's, there's joy in that!

Myisha Battle: And what about metamours?

Ashley Ray: Metamours are your partner's partners. So you're gonna have your primary, you'll start dating people, those will be your primaries metamours, if they start dating people those are your metamours. How a metamour relationship works, again, is totally up to you. Some people don't want to know anything about their partner's metamours, they don't want to talk to them, don't want to know their names, and some people have very close connections with their metamours. They see it as a secondary community or family. You know, they'll go to the movies together, have picnics, all hang out as a group, even if those metamours aren't dating each other. So I think that is a difference. A lot of people think polyamory is just some harem or you have like tons of Sister Wives, or sister husband or brother husbands. But no, metamours can simply be friends who all support the person they love.

Myisha Battle: I love it. Yeah, we just dropped a bunch of resources for this listener.

Ashley Ray: Yeah, that was a lot.

Myisha Battle: So let me recap. So we have Tristan Taormino's "Opening Up" which I recommend to clients all the time. You also mentioned "The Ethical Slut" which is basically like the bible of polyamory and open relationships. So, we have talked about ethical non monogamy and polyamory meetups. They're everywhere. Poly TikTok, resources galore there.

Ashley Ray: I mentioned Feeld, a dating app for poly people, they also do events now.

Myisha Battle: Oh great! Yes.

Ashley Ray: So like in major cities, New York, Chicago, LA. They're doing like comedy shows, like open like bars for people. So another great meetup opportunity,

Myisha Battle: Yes. You need community and you need to be talking to your partner about what it is that excites you about opening up your relationship, what excites them, what are your fears? And then of course, we talked about creating those relationship agreements. That is, it's a starting point, and it's a working document. So this is just to help you to establish the sort of lay of the land, and you know how the two of you are going to take care of yourselves in this process. But things are going to change and you're gonna need to revise this as new challenges arise. So good luck out there.

Ashley Ray: Yeah. Good luck!

Myisha Battle: Yeah, let us know, I want to hear back from this person, once they have made strides towards opening their relationship and see if our tips help them. This has been so great, Ashley, and I want to continue chatting after the break. I also want to remind folks that you can submit a question to us at sex life at kcrw dot org.

[BREAK]

Myisha Battle: We have another question that I think you're really going to like.

Ashley Ray: Oh!

[Question #2]
How do you find a sexually compatible partner at age 46? Dating in your 40s is insane!

Ashley Ray: Hmm.

Myisha Battle: Yeah, so I have a lot of clients in their 40s. And I'm just going to lay out some of the unique challenges that I see with people who are in their 40s. Like, number one, they've already fucked around and found out, you know, they have life experience, they know what they want. But oftentimes, I think people in their 40s aren't as well versed in like how people are dating now. So they're like, how do I apply my kind of like, no nonsense, like, I already have a life established, like, I just need somebody to seamlessly kind of like, integrate into my life. How do I you know, square that with, like, all the fuckery of dating app and still keep my sanity?

Ashley Ray: Yeah,

Myisha Battle: The other unique challenge, and I don't think it's like, so unique, but I think it's more likely in your 40s is that, you know, you're perhaps divorced. You maybe have kids so navigating that as well I think is a unique challenge to this stage of life. So this question asker didn't provide much context, but those are the kinds of things that I think are generally harder, the older that you get.

Ashley Ray: What I'm gonna say here is, I actually think the first thing you said here is a benefit. And I'll say I have dated a lot of 40 year olds. I've been dating 40 year olds since I was a 20 year old.

Myisha Battle: Okay, all right, speak on it!

Ashley Ray: I've always just kind of dated older and been attracted to older people. But there's something, now I'm 32, and like, I've dated a lot of people who are 40 plus, and I love it because they know what they want. Because they aren't as tied to sort of modern dating notions that are guided mostly by apps where they're like, "What is hookup hookup culture? Is this a situationship? How do we define this blah, blah, blah. Twitter says like, if you take me to Cheesecake Factory, you don't really love me." And you don't deal with that when you are in your 40s. So I think that can be a benefit that you know, you have this different perspective, there are people who want that in their 30s. I probably don't date 20 somethings I did date up, but it mostly doesn't work out. But I think there are people out there who, you know, are tired of the dating apps and are excited about that. But the second point is a lot harder. I think it can often be like the beginning stages of that midlife crisis. I've dated a lot of dudes in like their 40s who, you know, had super religious periods in their 20s and 30s and now they feel like "Oh, I have to like make up for time I lost like, I'm 40 What's happening? I have to get out there do this or my life should be like this." And I think it's a time when people are coming face to face with like the fact of if they haven't achieved the life they want that they might not be happy with it. So I find that to be kind of the issue, at least as a younger person where I'm just like, chill, like can we just like date and have a chill time? Yeah.

Myisha Battle: Yeah, it was funny like last night I was watching TV and I saw an ad for a dating app for single parents.

Ashley Ray: Ooh

Myisha Battle: And I mean, number one I like never watch like TV, so I don't get fed these ads that are just like for everybody. But I wanted to share that. It's called Stir. And you know, it's not an endorsement but I just wanted to put it out there for people who are navigating dating as you know, a single parent, and you're like, who's gonna want to deal with this? You know, a lot of people think that this makes them less dateable.

Ashley Ray: Yeah.

Myisha Battle: But obviously, if there's a whole app for it, there are people that are looking for that, either because they are also single parents or because they don't want children of their own, but they're okay co-parenting.

Ashley Ray: Yeah.

Myisha Battle: So, you know, these are options for somebody who, you know, is maybe, I mean, let's just be honest, like, it's hard to meet people in real life now.

Ashley Ray: Yeah.

Myisha Battle: So if you have to go on an app, I say, pick one that, you know

Ashley Ray: Is for you! And is about your lane!

Myisha Battle: Is for your demo

Ashley Ray: And yeah, that's how I met my partner. Feeld, which is for like, you know, solo, poly, queer people of all colors, and whatever. And that's, you know, where I could find people who spoke my language. And I think the person asked about, like, how you find someone who you could be like, sexually compatible with and that at that age, and I mean, most of the 40 somethings I know, when it comes to sex, they don't want that awkward phase. They don't want that like, do you know what you like? That wanna start at that honeymoon phase of like, we're comfortable with each other, let's get into our bodies. And I think you find that if you are just starting at it on an app, or in a place where the barriers are coming down, where it's like, I see what you want, I see what I want, you have a kid, this is where we're at in life, like, this is what we're looking for. And I think if you just start on like a Hinge or Tinder, when you're swiping through people who are like, ""I don't know, I just came out of a breakup," you're wasting so much time.

Myisha Battle: 100 percent. Okay! Well, I think we gave this person some good places to start. A little empowerment, like, listen, you know, there's pros and cons to your situation, and play up your strengths, you know, go to a place where you know, you're going to find connections that are going to work for you. And we have one final question that I'm, I'm actually pretty excited to go on a deep dive with you on this one. So let's, let's hear it.

[Question #3]
How do I deal with a closeted wife that just came out?

Ashley Ray: Oooh.

Myisha Battle: So my first response to this hearing it is, my brain goes right to the deal with, um, because when I think of a partner coming out in a relationship, and I have worked with couples who one partner is coming out maybe later in life as a different orientation than they currently have with their partner, right. That's something that I helped support the couple with, and guide them through. I think that dealing with kind of means that you're struggling through it, trying to fix it, and you know, handling the situation as best you can grinning and bearing, you know. And I think that there's so much more to this where I think we could open it up a little bit to say, how can you support your partner as they reveal a deeper layer of themselves to you?

Ashley Ray: Yeah

Myisha Battle: Because that's what it is and I think of it as such an honor and a privilege and try to help my clients see that, like, there must be something in the relationship where they feel comfortable enough, or they've gotten to a point with you, where they feel it's time to share who they are, authentically are, with you. And they're they're strong enough in their personhood, to recognize that. Maybe deal with some internalized homophobia, or whatever is going on for them. You know, this question asker doesn't say what this what their partner came out as, but very common for someone to have deeply seated homophobia internalized that, you know, just the fact that they're sharing this with you, saying this is who I am, that's such a gift, in my opinion. So I'll pause there and just get your like first thoughts about this question?

Ashley Ray: Yeah, I absolutely agree and can understand how difficult that is. I have sort of seen that and been on the other end of it. You know, part of dating couples who open the relationships is a lot of times they're opening the relationships because the woman wants to explore that feeling of dating other women. Few months later, she's realizing a lot more. So this is something I've seen and experienced, but I think with what you said the support. What really kind of resonates with me is when my mom turned 63 she came out of the closet. And this was after a lifetime of homophobia of trying to send me to conversion camp because I knew I was queer at a very young age. And so my shock, it's the shock of at this age, of you, after everything you put me through? And I can maybe see for this person who has been married to this person that for you, it's like we've been married, everything we've been through. And now this like, was it all a lie? What was you know, and I think it's normal to go through those questions and to think about yourself and what it means for you. But in that moment with my mom, you know, it made a lot of things make sense. I started to sort of understand the way she treated me was because she was dealing with this internalized homophobia. So I think you, you know, look at the way that maybe not so much, you know, things have been internalized or turned against you, but understand your partner has been struggling with this for a long time, probably. That that doesn't mean the love that they had for you is suddenly fake, or false, or different. You know, I suddenly understood my mom came at me that way because of a deeper love and fear that she had, you know, that she had hidden the fact that she was gay for so long, because she thought she'd be persecuted for it. And she didn't want me to deal with that, too. That's where it came from, for her. So, you know, for me, it was understanding that working through it, and then I could come to this place of wanting to love and support her. And understanding how hard that must have been for her to have to deal with that. And you know in my mind, I was just living my life. But, you know, it took a lot for me to go, okay, I see that you have had to really work through this internally. And to see someone do that, all you really want to do is support them, it's like you found this new you. All I can do is is hug you and not throw this in your face. And you know, so then I became very supportive of my mom, like, you know, helping her get to know all the LGBTQ stuff she needed to know. But I think it can be just really shocking, I think it's valid to accept that. Process it. But, you know, I didn't feel a need to take that out on my mom. And I understand like a part, a husband, a wife, a partner is very different, you have a very different dynamic than my mom and I. And there's obviously going to be romantic issues of "Hey, so what has this all meant?" But you know, it's understanding sexuality is this fluid thing, it doesn't mean that what you had is any less valid. It's just changing now.

Myisha Battle: I love that. And thank you so much for sharing that about your mom. And I hope that that experience has brought you closer ultimately.

Ashley Ray: It did! Yeah. And, you know, I would say from the couples that I've dated, who've experienced this, I find like the best outcome is they remain friends. It's very possible to remain friends, to have some sort of partnership still, you know, I there may be that fear of like, am I losing you forever? And it doesn't have to be that way.

Myisha Battle: I agree. I actually have worked with two couples, for whom the male partner, or heterosexual couple, the male partner came out as bisexual during the marriage, and this is like, deep into the marriage for one of them, and pretty early on in the marriage for the other. In one instance, they've opened the marriage to include other men, and they play together, just recently, it's been kind of a transition. And we've worked together really closely to like, allow him to start seeing people independent of his wife. And that's, I mean, he acknowledges every day that like, the love that he has from his wife is why he gets to do this, you know, he's former Navy. And so, you know, is from an environment where this would have never been, you know, accepted.

Ashley Ray: Yea like accepted or considered! I love that way of putting it like, I get to do this because I love you.

Myisha Battle: Yeah

Ashley Ray: You know, and there's a reality here where your wife comes out and gets to still love you and explore and, you know, everything's on the table. I think, like, we jump so quickly to labels and it's like, "You're gay now, so you don't want me?" and it's like, slow down.

Myisha Battle: Right! If, you know, everything is on a spectrum then you know gayness is on a spectrum. Heterosexuality is on a spectrum. And to that end, the other couple that I work with, they actually have chosen not to open their relationship and may never open their relationship, but they have created space for the idea that they are in a queer marriage. Like, this is no longer a heterosexual marriage because one of the people is identifying as queer. So, you know, it's, I think, really good to think about these nuanced ways that and it's hard, I will say that like, you know, you're, you're a straight man and you married a woman, so boom. But I think that there's a way in which this person can start to shift their idea of like, how do I make space for my wife's identity in this marriage? This may include, you know, involving other people, or this may just be something that internally we just recognize, and we make sure that, you know, she's acknowledged and she feels whole in this relationship

Ashley Ray: And feel supported!

Myisha Battle: Yeah.

Ashley Ray: And again, I also think it can come back a lot to community. I think, you know, supporting your wife and going to LGBTQ meetups, you know, supporting her if she wants to go to lesbian bars and like, see what the scene is like. Just like I say, give the freedom to express that, to explore, to see what it is she really wants.

Myisha Battle: Great. I mean, yeah, I think that there's so much to look forward to, at this point in their marriage, not all of it is going to be fun and easy. Of course, some of it's going to be really scary, but know that you're both scared, you know. And know that you both deserve support. So seeing an individual therapist who can help you to process your feelings about this is probably a good idea at this point. They may also want to seek out counseling with somebody who is affirming of their orientation. And couples counseling is also something that can really help the two of you to talk more productively about this, because it's new. It's a new, it's a new sort of threshold that you're passing through with each other. And I think there is again, a lot on the other side to look forward to.

Ashley Ray: Yeah!

Myisha Battle: Yeah! Well, thank you so so much Ashley for joining me today. I could not have picked a better guest for this episode! You are a wealth of knowledge in these areas. So these question askers should feel honored.

Ashley Ray: Yes, I am happy my messy polyamorous life can be of use to people.

Myisha Battle: That's something else I think people should recognize is like, when you dare to go there. Like you get a lot of knowledge.

Ashley Ray: Knowledge. Experience. You will have stories.

Myisha Battle: You will have stories and you will have a lot of wisdom.

Ashley Ray: Yes.

Myisha Battle: So I appreciate you sharing your wisdom with us today. Where would you like people to find you either on the internet or in person?

Ashley Ray: Yeah, you can follow me @theashleyray on all platforms. I do stand up comedy where I talk a lot about polyamory. So if you want to come and join that, check my website out, check my Instagram out @theashleyray for any shows. And you can listen to TV, I Say every Wednesday wherever you listen to podcasts. We talk about all things television and some poly shows, I mean, we're watching Sister Wives over there. A show I would not say to look for any sort of poly guidance from.

Myisha Battle: Okay, but I also saw you talked about The Golden Bachelor and I just think The Bachelor is a raving endorsement for polyamory.

Ashley Ray: It really is. And especially with, if you're older, if you're like how am I finding love at 60? Maybe you gotta try a different relationship style and it's five women going on a date with one man.

Myisha Battle: He falls in love with multiple women. It is teased.

Ashley Ray: He does!

Myisha Battle: We will see what happens.

Ashley Ray: He does! Every episode he's like I truly think I'm in love with her and it's like he really is. He's a sweetheart.

Myisha Battle: I know and like why would you deny yourself of that at this age? Right? First poly bachelor! First poly bachelor!

Ashley Ray: Do it. Do it bachelor. Bachelor nation you hear me.

Myisha Battle: Alright, thanks so much, Ashley.

Ashley Ray: Thank you!

Myisha Battle: How's Your Sex Life is a KCRW original podcast. Our producer is Andrea Bautista. Our executive producer is Gina Delvac. Our engineer is Nick Lampone. Our music was created by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Special thanks to John Meek, Nathalie Hill, Connie Alvarez, Meggan Ellingboe, Arnie Seipel and Jennifer Ferro. And last but not least, a huge thanks to our voice actors. I'll let them say goodbye in their own voices.

Voice actor #1: This is Kerry Prince. Thanks for listening.

Voice actor #2: This is Celine Mendiola. Follow the show and share with a friend!

Voice actor #3: This is Christian Bordal. See you next time for another episode of How's Your Sex Life?