Perimenopause is making me horny! with Virgie Tovar (Part 2) full transcript
Myisha Battle: When we are going through puberty, we're getting estrogenized, you know? That process happens and do you remember the confusion? Do you remember just like being really fucked up during that time? [Laughter]
Virgie Tovar: Yes! Yeah!
Myisha: Because I certainly do. Okay, so perimenopause is the reverse of that. It's reverse puberty.
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Myisha: Welcome back to KCRW's ‘How's Your Sex Life?,’ your sex and dating survival guide. I'm your host Myisha Battle and I'm back for part two of my conversation with Virgie Tovar. Today we're going to hear from Virgie, her questions about perimenopause and sex for me. And if you haven't listened to her episode last week about dating while fat, please check it out. Hey, Virgie!
Virgie: Hi!
Myisha: Welcome back!
Virgie: Thank you!
Myisha: So there are a few questions that you had yourself to ask me that I think would be fun to talk through in a lightning round.
Virgie: Yes.
Myisha: How does that sound?
Virgie: Yes!
Myisha: Okay, great, great. So what do you got for me?
Virgie: Okay, so I actually would like, okay, so let's start with sex dreams. So my sex dreams have gotten really wild in the last few years. I'm in perimenopause, which feels connected.
Myisha: Yeah.
Virgie: And I take birth control for it, a progesterone based pill.
Myisha: Okay.
Virgie: Which I swear has made me hornier and led even wilder sex dreams, which in turn makes me hornier. It's like a never ending cycle. So what the hell is going on?
Myisha: Yeah, so hormones. When we're going through perimenopause, our hormones are all over the place and those fluctuations that are not our norm from other stages in life, are causing all kinds of symptoms like hot flashes, night sweats, irritability, mood, all these things. So we try to combat these very uncomfortable symptoms with hormone replacement therapy. Now, what hormone replacement therapy can do is you know I don't even want to call it an overcorrection, but it can definitely give us like a boost back to times when maybe you felt more sexually turned on more of the time. Like, I have definitely worked with clients who have told me that they literally have found themselves chasing their husbands around the house.
Virgie: Yes! Yeah, it's like, it's like almost violent, like a violent horniness.
Myisha: And then, like getting rejected and like crying, you know, like, just being like who the fuck am I now? And these are women in their 50s and, you know, they're like, I feel like I'm 14 again. It's just so so crazy. So I think that that change can be really jarring, but it sounds like what you're on is working.
Virgie: Mmm yes!
Myisha: So yeah, I mean, there are a lot of ways in which perimenopause and menopause can affect our sexual functioning. Sounds like you don't need to worry about that yet.
Virgie: Not yet! One thing. Okay. So question. Can I ask a follow up?
Myisha: Yeah!
Virgie: So one of the things that I felt kind of shooketh by was like, my, I guess it was like, out of nowhere, my OB, or maybe a friend even was like, "Yeah, perimenopause can last up to a decade." And I was like, what?! I think like, this is I feel like this is not common knowledge.
Myisha: It's not.
Virgie: Okay, yeah.
Myisha: It's not and there's now growing research, because women's bodies? Who cares? [Laughter] Who the fuck cares about us?! Like and now I'm meeting with so many women who are just pissed about this, because all of our lives we have been taught to, like, do our own research and like, learn about our bodies and advocate for it and like, you know, all of these things, and then we get to a stage in life where we just basically just drop off a cliff. Doctors don't have answers for us. We can't read about it because there's no solid data anywhere, like all of our tools and resources that we've used the rest of our lives to kind of take ownership over our health and well-being as women has been just stripped away when it comes to perimenopause and menopause. So here's the fun thing Virgie.
Virgie: Yeah. [Laughs]
Myisha: Menopause can last up to 10 years. And who do you think is on the longer end of that spectrum?
Virgie: Whoa, no, I literally this is like a befuddler. I don't know!
Myisha: Women of color. Women of color tend to start perimenopause, they have perimenopausal symptoms earlier.
Virgie: That makes sense to me, yeah.
Myisha: And it lasts longer. So it's not like it starts earlier and then we just get the gift of being done with it earlier. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We have more experiences with the symptoms for a longer period of time.
Virgie: Woah!
Myisha: Yeah, New York Times article on this came out last year that just made me really really upset.
Virgie: Yeah, yeah, understandable. I mean definitely when I started having symptoms I was like this is about stress and I know it! Because I felt like, now I'm talking to more friends, and they're, they're kind of talking about how they're in perimenopause. Because it's one of those things where like, don't ask, don't tell. Like unless, unless I throw out the P word, no one else is talking about it and I'm like, what, what is this? Like, like if you had a bunch of information, you could have told me, you know?
Myisha: Yeah! It's this black box of women's health.
Virgie: Yeah, totally.
Myisha: Our mothers, I mean, I know, my mom was pretty transparent about it, and I know she went on hormone therapy, and then the research showed that it increased your risk of breast cancer, but the research is now being shown to be flawed. So her current doctor took her off medication that was really helping her function and she was livid. And then, you know, had to switch doctors and advocate for herself to get back on hormone replacement therapy, because that was the right decision for her. We also luckily, in my family have a low incidence of like, I don't know anybody in my family who has breast cancer, so anyway. We were not at risk, we were not at risk. So this is something that generationally, we've not passed on information and knowledge. And then within our own, like strata of our generation, we're all kind of going through it at the same time. I started having symptoms when I was 39 and it took the form of anxiety.
Virgie: Wow!
Myisha: So that can also be and it was just, I knew it wasn't me. I knew it was not my norm, you know? It didn't, I didn't have anything in my life accounting for the amount and the persistence of the anxiety that I had at the time. And I was told, I thought, like, maybe this is some kind of hormonal change. And my doctor is like, you're too young. You're too young.
Virgie: Wow.
Myisha: Yeah. So yeah, it's something that we still need a lot more data on, but I'm glad that you're taking action now and that it's providing you with sex dreams.
Virgie: Yes! Thank you.
Myisha: It's a benefit. [Laughter]
Virgie: Thank you. Yeah.
Myisha: What do you got for me next?
Virgie: Okay, my next one is are there any benefits to, I love masturbating in the sun. I don't know if it's a warmth thing or if it's a nature thing. I've seen this trend going around. I'm like, I already do it, but should I do it more?
Myisha: If you want to!
Virgie: Yes!
Myisha: If you have a place to do it! Yeah, I think that like, if you're feeling any amount of FOMO when you see the hype online about masturbating in the sun, fully, fully indulge. Are there any, like medical benefits to this? No. Other than just like the pleasure factor.
Virgie: Yesss!
Myisha: But it's not going to like, make your vagina any which way. Like, it's not going to harm it. It's not going to help it. It can increase sensitivity because of the warmth, you know. So yeah, it feels good. Do it because it feels good. And because you want to.
Virgie: I love this. Yes. Okay, so this next question is about Hitachi. Now, I mean, Hitachi is controversial right, in the sense that like, I think that it's been at the center of a lot of like, really weird discourse around desensitization, which I feel like mixed feelings about but the point is, right. Lately, I've historically been, so there's four settings or three maybe? Yeah. But it's like I've normally done setting two, which is kind of I've been like, I'm comfortable setting two. There's two more settings. I'm nowhere near that, but recently, I went to the three and then the three wasn't really working. And then the four started to feel like, okay, I'm bumping up against a frontier that's beginning to terrify me. So, I'm like is my pussy dead? Is it time to panic? Do you have thoughts on this? [Laughter]
Myisha: No, it's not time to panic. What is happening is also probably a result of perimenopause and hormonal fluctuations. It might be time to, if you are a candidate for it, if your doctor thinks you are a candidate for it, it might be time to add in an estrogen cream. Estrogen can help with increasing sensitivity and when we lose estrogen through the process of perimenopause. I'm gonna describe perimenopause, this analogy really helped me understand it. So when we are going through puberty, you know, 8 to 10, you know, 12 to 14, like those years, we're getting estrogenized, you know? So that's what's giving us breast, hips, more body fat, etc. It's feminizing us. It's allowing us to have a menstrual cycle so that we can potentially have children, all of those fun things that come with traumas.
Virgie: Yes!
Myisha: So that process happens and do you remember the like emotional volatility?
Virgie: Yeah!
Myisha: Do you remember the confusion? Do you remember just like being really fucked up during that time?
Virgie: Yeah!
Myisha: Because I certainly do. Okay. So perimenopause is the reverse of that. It's reverse puberty. It's our bodies, not defeminizing, but losing the hormones that have been most responsible for our feminine functioning. Yeah, the things that are considered like, you know, our cycle, you know, the ability to perhaps have children, all of that is sort of coming to an end, and that process is crazy! It's emotional, it's volatile, and we can potentially have sexual side effects from not having enough estrogen to support our sexual functioning. So vaginal dryness, clitoral desensitization is one of them, and the tissue of the inside of our vagina can also thin and get, sometimes some women have described it as feeling kind of like scratchy burny!
Virgie: Right.
Myisha: And so that can be something that can be remedied with vaginal estrogen, potentially, or vaginal moisturizers if you are not a good candidate for estrogen replacement therapy.
Virgie: Woah.
Myisha: Yeah.
Virgie: I didn't know about clitoral destimulation. Like loss of stimulation, that's really, or desensitization.
Myisha: Yeah.
Virgie: That's fascinating.
Myisha: Yeah, it's because of the tissue changing. So anything, anything that increases blood flow, so there you go, the sun! The sun! The heat! That might be helping boost your sensitivity a little bit, not long term, but in those sessions that you do, and then of course, having more, I recommend the Hitachi specifically for women who notice this change because if they've been using these little rinky dink vibrators, the like jelly form or whatever from like 1994, I'm like babes. Get yourself a wand. [Laughs]
Virgie: Yes!
Myisha: And welcome to the club, you know, so yeah, that can be something that is just is your friend and now there's there's there's just so much more information too about clitorises you know and and like different toys and sensations to provide there so you might find that even changing the sensation to something that's like a suction or or a pulsing might help with that as well.
Virgie: I love that! I love these suggestions. Thank you.
Myisha: Yeah, you're very welcome. [Laughter] Tell me how it goes!
Virgie: Yes!
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Myisha: We'll be back for more of my conversation with Virgie after a quick break. Don't go anywhere!
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Myisha: And we're back. We're gonna move into our last segment. Basically, I have three questions lined up for you all relating to dating and relationships. You get to pick one that you want to answer. How's that feel?
Virgie: That sounds good.
Myisha: All right, here are your choices.
Virgie: Yeah.
Myisha: A. Who made the first move? You or your partner? B. What's the biggest sexual hang up you've overcome? C. What's the goofiest thing you've ever done for crushes' attention?
Virgie: OMG. I'm feeling drawn to two, B.
Myisha: Okay!
Virgie: Which is the sexual hang up that I've overcome.
Myisha: Yeah.
Virgie: Yeah, I mean, I think this speaks so deeply to being fat. I think like sex while fat is really complicated, right? Like, I think like, I feel like as a younger woman, and I mean, this includes into my 30s when I was single, I felt like I had to kind of discipline and contain my body during sex. So it was like it was honestly it felt like I was like, trying to protect my partner from my body. From seeing my body and all of its in its totality. And there was kind of this myth that I think I subscribed to that I could like, make my body look less marginalized, less fat, in the name of getting sex or getting a reaction that was like, you know, because I think about like, again, with the history of dating and sleeping with cis men, you know, there are certain things that a lot of them like, you know, and I just kind of think about like really leaning in as a way to access my idea of acceptance or getting access to sex and what I felt I had to do to get that and so I think about like all of the labor I did, not only like the corsetry and then like, like keeping on a sweater during sex or like, keeping on a like bra during, like all these kinds of things. Like literally, you know, I remember many dates where I'm wearing so much corsetry that I like can't even fall asleep after we've had sex because it's like so overwhelmingly uncomfortable or the more embarrassing where it's trapped so much gas because of like the tightness that I'm just like trying to I can't fall asleep because a fart will come out and a big one. So like, I just kind of think about like, and then and then rules I had around like, you can't be on the top because that means that your fat, your belly, your boobs are like, hanging, right? Like, and, you know, no oral sex, because then they're gonna see your butt! It was just like, oh my god, like the number, so many hang ups, so many rules. And getting to the point now I remember, like going to a workshop where someone literally said, like, if your belly is in the way during oral sex, or any sex or a certain position you want, just pick that shit up, and move it and I was like woah! It was like so obvious, like I'm like, yeah, that's true! We all I think like, you know, maybe you can sense the emotional gravitas of like, this very simple act, but like you mean my lover is like touching my fat, then they're like picking it up. They're comfortable! And they still want to have sex with me after they've touched my belly and picked it up!? Like, what? This all just felt like a magical world that didn't exist, but on the other but, but I trusted this advice. And like, I found that once I normalized that, that it was like, yeah, that's just what we do! And like, yeah, if my thighs in the way, you just move my thigh fat! And so like now I think going back to kind of like the very beginning we're talking about kind of like lazy, comfortable satisfying sex. It's like, you know, that sense of like, I have nothing. I have no corsetry. I'm like out here, you know, and there's like, I have all like, right like, I body fat. I have, like, jiggle. I have a FUPA! I have like wobbly thighs. Like, you know, I have like my breasts have sag to them. I have like chubby arms. And my partner's just like yes! You know what I mean? Like, it's just like this full. And I think what's amazing is like, it's like, he's not only attracted to me and my totality, which is like, obviously expected from a partner. But like, there's a deeper acceptance of like, this is her, and like her and all of that, all that that entails. And so it's just like the most satisfying feeling to feel unbridled. Like not only in the physical sense of like, not wearing corsetry, not wearing clothes, but like, if I want to get on top I can. If I'm like too, if I'm just like, you know what, you're thinner than me so you need to be on top, you know? Or like, whatever like, it's just kind of there's like, it's just fine. And I think about with him, one of the things that he just he's so good at is he's like, he just normalizes bodies in like all of their complexity. Like he always says like, you know, bodies are gross and that's okay Virgie! Like it's like something smells kind of funny something something weird is like on my dick. Like it's just like we just had sex and there's like some weird stuff on your wiener. And he's like it's fine! You know? And I just it's like, I think that I think like getting over that hang up has thankfully been like a collaborative effort both with my community of people I don't have sex with and my partner.
Myisha: Yes! That is a beautiful place to end our conversation. Thank you so much. This has been a really fun conversation. Before we go, where can people find you and find more information about your work?
Virgie: Yeah! I mean, I'm really active on Instagram at Virgie Tovar. V-I-R-G-I-E-T-O-V-A-R and Virgie Tovar dot com. I also am a contributor for Forbes. So if you go to Forbes you can see some writing about plus size fashion and weight discrimination at work. Yeah.
Myisha: I will pass this on. I share your work with clients a lot and I did not know that you have the column for Forbes. So yeah, I will definitely be forwarding those articles as well.
Virgie: Cool, thank you!
Myisha: Yeah! My pleasure. Thanks so much for being here! This was great!
Virgie: So fun!
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Myisha: And thank you for listening. Next time on ‘How's Your Sex Life?’ I talk to journalist, author, and friend Ann Friedman for a special friendship edition of the show.
Ann Friedman: When we think about what's really important with adult relationships, all kinds of intimate relationships really add up to us growing as humans. And yes! Romantic and sexual relationships are one, two options, I guess. And friendship is another huge way that we all grow and mature and it's not unrelated to the kind of growth that happens in other types of intimacies.
Myisha: If you need dating or relationship advice, remember to send me an email or voice memo at sex life at kcrw dot org. We might answer your question in a future episode.
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Myisha: ‘How's Your Sex Life?’ is a KCRW original podcast. Our producer is Andrea Bautista. Our executive producer is Gina Delvac. This episode was mixed by Hope Brush. Our music was created by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Special thanks to Women's Audio Mission, Arnie Seipel and Jennifer Ferro.