Screw The Dating Scene full transcript

Myisha Battle: What do you think about people who have a sex playlist that they may use for different people?

Dylan Tupper Rupert: It's like, literally anytime that happens, I'm like, yeah, this is just. You use this on the other girl? [Laughter]

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Myisha: Welcome back to KCRW's How's Your Sex Life? Your sex and dating survival guide. I'm your host, Myisha Battle, and I'm here to tell you that prioritizing your sex and dating life isn't easy, but it can be very fun when you do. Today, we're going to hear your questions about meeting a friend's significant other and what to do when dating feels hopeless. And I'm here with Dylan Tupper Rupert. Hey, Dylan!

Dylan: Hi! Oh, I love those topics.

Myisha: You're already excited?

Dylan: I'm ready!

Myisha: Great! Dylan, you host the new season of KCRW's Lost Notes podcast, which just dropped last week. Can you tell us a little bit about what you'll be digging into over there?

Dylan: Yeah, man. So we are basically taking eight episodes to drop you into the world of the Sunset strip's most legendary groupies of like, the peak rock and roll era. So, like, we're calling it from the pill to the dawn of punk so like mid 60s to mid to late 70s, and it sort of charts a lineage of like sex, drugs and rock and roll, but from the girls' perspectives, and we uncover a lot of history along the way about how the girls who were sexually active on the Sunset Strip music scene actually shaped a lot of the music that is canon in our culture. And I just had a blast. I talked to some heroes of mine, just famous young girls who just are legends to me. And yeah, had some starstruck moments.

Myisha: I can't wait and I can't wait to get into our questions today, but before we do, I have a question for you. How's your sex life?

Dylan: Woo! I, you know, I am in a period of really intense transformation in terms of how I even look at my sex life. A lot of that was, this is just it's so dramatic and heavy, but I just a couple weeks ago, was in a really difficult situation where I was actually in Asheville during the hurricane, and the night before that hit, I actually, you know, I decided to stay home. I knew there was going to be a storm. No one really knew how intense it was going to be, and I just had a couple days left of my trip, and I was reading a friend's book, a memoir. His name's Carvell Wallace. He's an incredible writer, and his book is called Another Word for Love, and it's about some pretty significant childhood and sexual trauma, and sort of his path to healing and how to, you know, incorporate. It's basically just a it's a trauma memoir that's centering the healing process through love and romance and sex. And I actually think people that listen to this podcast would really, really love that book it was incredibly affecting. And I stayed up until 1am that night, just bawling my eyes out, being like, oh my god, there are just things in this book that I've never considered. Like there was a quote that really stuck with me that was actually a quote, I think, from adrienne maree brown, but he was talking about being at a sex party and feeling like he wasn't being like, orgy enough, like, at the sex party, and he recalled this quote about, like, moving at the speed of trust in terms of, like, having a new sexual experience with someone. And I just really that just like, floored me. And I was like, wow, that's something that's something that I get upset, that people don't do with me, but I also realized I didn't do that with myself and with other people too. And so I was just sobbing at 1am and then I woke up at 6am and a tree fell on the garage, like it was, and then I just was launched into this really difficult experience where it was a little bit survival mode for a few days, and I was looking back at my journals this morning of what I was writing those days, and I wrote down like I never even want to consider sleeping with anyone again who wouldn't be ride or die in a situation like this, that I couldn't trust to help me find food and find a freeway out and and it really, you know, I I just came back to LA and I was like, is there anyone on the roster who qualifies for this anymore? And I was just like, no! So that's the long answer. The short answer is it's on hold. I can't even imagine. I like, looked at the apps when I got home, and I was like, oh my god, what am I doing, I can't do this! Don't look at me! Don't touch me! Like, I just need to eat soup and go to bed at 9pm but you know, hopefully we'll snap back sometime soon.

Myisha: Well, I'm glad you're safe. I know so many people were not, and you know there's so many relief efforts happening right now to help those who are still there, but just really glad you made it back safely.

Dylan: Thank you. Yes, definitely. My heart is still there with everyone. And yep.

Myisha: How could it not be? How could it not be, yeah.

Dylan: It just is, baby.

Myisha: Well, we're also gonna give some love to our question askers today, and with that, let's listen to our first question. And just as a quick reminder, our questions are voiced by actors, so that everyone is anonymous.

Question 1: Hi Myisha, this might be weird, but does having music on during sex actually do anything to enhance the experience?

Myisha: This is a great question, for you Dylan!

Dylan: I'm like, has this person never listened to Frank Ocean before? I'm just like what?

Myisha: Well, yeah. I mean, it's, it's a great question, because I think there are people for whom this is a no brainer, right?

Dylan: Yep.

Myisha: They have an idea of music enhancing sex. They've maybe, maybe even had personal experiences of that being the case. But then I think there's also just this pressure to have that experience, and when people don't, then they get concerned or frustrated or like, are they missing out on something that other people know that they don't? And so for those people, I would say, yeah, don't worry about it. If music is distracting to you, if music and I guess I would, I would give yourself permission to like play around with this a little bit and see maybe it's the wrong kind of music for you? Maybe switching up the genre, switching up the artists. Some people may like the sexy, explicit jams, and some people may not. So music can enhance your sexual experience, but it doesn't necessarily have to. There are people with a lot of sensitivity to sound during sex, so that could take them out of the moment and make it maybe even more difficult to orgasm, if there's like sounds that are distracting them from their own bodily experience. But in general, I think, like, there's a bell curve for everything, right? And I think the majority of folks fall in that middle section of at some point, music has really helped increase their their desire, or their excitation, or their arousal. So, yeah, I would say this is, this is an individual experience, for sure, but generally people dig it. What do you think?

Dylan: Yeah, I would say individual experience, and also experience to experience basics. I mean, sometimes it's like the playlist is going on too long, and Spotify radio, the algo, does not know what you are up to on the other side. And it throws some curveballs at you when you know, like, the playlist is up. So it's just, yeah, I think, like, no pressure. Like, the last thing I think I would personally want to be thinking about is like, am I listening to the right music right now? Or, like, is the next song on the playlist just gonna, like, screw up the flow of what's happening? And so I just feel like, if there's already music on, then you're already in the moment with it. And it's not this sort of, like conscious thing, but I think, you know, it's, it shouldn't. I don't want to say it should or shouldn't be, but I think it might be distracting for anyone, if that's like, the top of mind thing. So if that's where it's like, sitting sort of in the layers of your consciousness, kind of upfront, then

Myisha: Yeah, what do you think about people who have a sex playlist that they may use for different people? It's just like —

Dylan: [Laughs] I was just gonna say for the different people thing, it's just like, it's like, literally anytime that happens, I'm like, yeah, this is just. You use this on the other girl? Like, whatever.

Myisha: Okay, so you never assume that a sex playlist is explicitly for you?

Dylan: Noooo, no! Men do not have that level of thoughtfulness baked in unless you're, like, committed to one another. I don't think, I don't think it's like, oh yeah, like, first field date, yeah, I've made a custom playlist just for you or for me personally, just because I am in music and am a music person. If someone did that, I would just be mortified.

Myisha: If someone made a specific playlist for you?

Dylan: Oh, yeah, I would just be focusing on it. Like, I'm, I'm a music critic. So like, my critic brain would be like, is this in the right order? Like, why did he think that this song has anything to do with me? Like, I'm just, I would be taking it so personally. So yeah, word to the wise,

Myisha: Yeah, I hear you.

Dylan: We would have to be straight up in love for me to be like, I'm comfortable with this. Anything less, I'd be like, ok?

Myisha: It's, it's giving like, try hard? Yeah.

Dylan: Oh yeah.

Myisha: Okay.

Dylan: Oh yeah. Trying is good, but like that level of specificity I think would freak me out a little bit.

Myisha: To anyone in your future, who you might date, who might be listening, don't, don't make a playlist for Dylan.

Dylan: Don't do it. Wait. That's, that's like, that's so beyond that's like ninth base.

Myisha: I love that.

Dylan: That's so personal.

Myisha: Yeah, it's true. It's true. Music is personal. I made a mix for my partner for our anniversary, and it was really fun! It's been a long time since I've done that for somebody. It wasn't a sex mix. It was like songs inspired by, like recent shows that we've been to together and like common musicians that we like, so.

Dylan: That's really cool. That's the dream! That is, that is in a different category. That's like the flirting mixtape, which is in a different category than the sex playlist.

Myisha: [Laughter] Deep cuts sex mix.

Dylan: Exactly, exactly.

Myisha: All right. Well, let's move on to our next question. It's about first impressions. Let's take a listen.

Question 2: Hey, Myisha! I'm about to meet my best friend's boyfriend for the first time. The thing is, she has historically bad taste in men. How do I approach the meetup without writing him off completely?

Myisha: Oh man.

Dylan: I'm cracking up because I've been there.

Myisha: I just I mean, my question is, why? Okay, I feel like meeting the friends is such a prerequisite before commitment. What do you think? Like I need to know that you're down with my people.

Dylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Myisha: So that's a lot. I just want to acknowledge that this person has a lot of pressure on them, because this is already a commitment, and she already knows the track record. She, they, but it's tricky. I think for me, the thing to do would be to go with an open mind, because I don't know what your friends history has been, or if it's involved reevaluating the kinds of men that she's dating, and so this guy might be part of the fruits of her labor, of figuring out who's a better match for her. What do you think?

Dylan: Yes, that is such a well put version of what is going on in my head, both because that reminds me exactly of my best friend and also of myself, that I'm this person who's like, normally bringing, you know, the garbage man around and being like, "Look guys! He's great!" And everyone's like, "Jesus Christ Dylan, not again." But I think, yeah, like, I think coming with with an open mind as well as context and concern is probably the best thing you can do as a friend and just give, give someone a little a little while to reveal themselves, especially your friend, because something that is so cool about constructive relationships is that this could be a growing experience for your friend as well. They could be they could have met someone new who is exposing them to a new dynamic, or a new way of being in a relationship that you have yet to see them in. And so maybe giving it a little bit of a shot, because maybe, maybe it's cool. One time, you know, my best friend, my best friend, on her third date with her now long term boyfriend, who we all love, and we're like, oh my god, thank god, we love him. Third date, they did mushrooms, walked around the Huntington Garden, then he came to our big sit down Christmas. What is it? What's it called? White elephant gift exchange? Secret Santa? Something like that. And I was like, okay, dude, coming in real hot. I was like, throwing this guy in the gauntlet. Also, he's coming down off mushrooms, and now we're just at the tiki bar together.

Myisha: Sounds like a fun day for him. I'm not gonna lie. [Laughs]

Dylan: I was like, "Is he okay?" This is, in some societies, this might qualify as psychological torture, but for him, he was so game, and we had so much fun, and that was the start of something really wonderful, and that was the first time I had seen her in a dynamic that was great, or at the beginning of becoming something great. So yeah!

Myisha: I think as friends, we can bring our own anxieties about our friends relationships into the dynamic, you know, and like you Dylan, I certainly had a lot of relationships prior to the one that I'm currently in that my friends were concerned for me about. And yeah, I mean sex, drugs and rock and roll. Why not? But I think that it's, it's really good to kind of take a step back and, like, realize there's, there's really, their relationship isn't within our control. You know, all you can do is, like you said, so well, like, watch that dynamic unfold and be a mirror. If your friend comes to you and says, like, oh, my god, he just did dadada, you can say, you know, that does kind of sound like things that your ex would do. Like you have that benefit of history with your friend to reflect that back to them and help them navigate if and when this situation turns bad, but it's not bad yet!

Dylan: Yeah, right!

Myisha: So let it be good for a moment and see where this goes.

Dylan: Yes.

Myisha: Yeah, this is a great time to take a break, but when we come back, we'll hear from someone who's frustrated with the dating scene. Don't go anywhere!

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Myisha: And we're back. Dylan, we have one more question from a listener, and I don't know, I mean, you might have some related feelings to this question asker.

Question 3: Hey Myisha! I'm a cis het woman, so naturally, dating is a nightmare. It's not fun to sift through all these profiles only to have guys make no effort to reach out, ask questions or plan dates. I'm about to give up. Any tips on how to stick with it? I'd love to find a partner to share my life with, but not at the expense of my sanity.

Myisha: So this person's really at like a make or break point with dating. What's your first take on this?

Dylan: [Laughter] That's my first take. The second take is like, it's like, we all know, we all know you're not going to give up for real. You know what I mean? Come on. Come on. I think I've had, of course, similar feelings, and there are certain. I'm gonna put it this way, this might help to, like, reframe what giving up means. I feel like I have, like, lovingly, gratefully abandoned certain ways of seeking relationships or a partner out of frustration and out of disappointment, and that has actually been really helpful! I have not given up altogether. It would be cool to, I think I would have to actually go and, like, do like a Leonard Cohen, you know, midlife crisis and like, go to the monastery if I was gonna fully disengage. But like, you know, I just, I really sat down and I was like, what is frustrating me? Besides my catch all, you know, thesis, thesi, theses about men, about society at large, about the dating scene, because I don't give a shit about the dating scene. I don't care! I'm not a part of the dating scene. I just want to meet a person, right? Like, I don't care about the temperature of the the vibe of the scene, like, that's not where I'm at. Um, I'm invested in finding, like, a partner. And so I was like, I kind of want to divest from that. I kind of want to divest from apps a little bit. I need to maybe stop sleeping with my friends if I'm not serious about dating them. And just like, see, like, when you take some things off the table, then see what options are left, because I think it's more than you might realize. I think there are like more ways to meet people who are aligned with your values, or who might surprise you, versus sort of running into these patterns again and again, which I definitely relate to and just kind of like, I think something that has been helpful for me, if not reaping rewards, but it's been helpful to shift my mind frame is like, where is there still in this world an element of surprise available to me? Because that's what's been the thing that is like sustained my interest and curiosity, because I do, like this question asker, I do want to keep dating and meeting people. I really enjoy meeting people. I even enjoy going on dates and meeting new people. That is fun for me. I love to yap, evidently, and it's a fun outlet, in addition to like being a project of like meeting a partner, but sometimes it's just like taking a step back from the apps, and just when you do that, let your creativity lead you to places that you wouldn't expect.

Myisha: Very, very, very well said! All of it.

Dylan: Oh, thank you.

Myisha: This is something that comes up in my work as a dating coach all the time. People feel really, really frustrated and just ready to divest from love. You know, they're like, I'll just I'll just be alone. And I love that your advice is more divestment from the things that cause frustration, that are like the root causes, and that there is so much more out there to enjoy. I have recommended people when I see them heading towards, like, app burnout, just, yeah, take a taking a break. I've offered pauses in my work with people because I've sensed that they're they're feeling that they have to do this, they have to date, they have to, like, break through no matter what's going on in their life is actually getting in the way of them enjoying themselves and just being a person out in the world. And when we relieve that pressure, then the emails come in, and they're like, I had a really fun time at this dinner party, or like, I found myself really connecting with people at an art show that I went to. And maybe these will be, you know, friend connections, maybe these will be potential partners. Maybe you'll meet somebody through these new connections. But I think there is a difference and a vibe shift when you can release some of that pressure from yourself to to be doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, because there's so much more to being human on the search for love, you know, there's so much more.

Dylan: For sure.

Myisha: Your point of like, what's left? What are spaces? What are experiences that can offer that element of surprise I thought was wonderful because, like, that's what that's what happens, and that's what everybody's actually wanting, you know? Is that, like, oh my god, I showed up at this place, and you showed up at this place, and turns out we're into the same shit, and, like, we're attracted to each other. Oh my god, this, this works. And maybe it just works for a night, and maybe it works for six weeks, and maybe it works for 25 years, you know, we don't know, but to be open to being surprised by people.

Dylan: Yeah, and it puts, it puts juice back in your tank. I'm mixing metaphors, you don't put juice in a gas tank, it puts gas in your gas tank, it gets like, it refills your cup, you know, all that, all that shit. But it's like, just a little bit of like, something that, because it's so easy, like, especially as smart people who like to recognize patterns and want to criticize systems and structures and everything that is me, baby, and like, I can get so caught up in the diagnostic, you know, just the diagnostic mode of being like, this is what's wrong, and this is what's not working, and that is just like the antithesis of fun and romance and like letting letting the world surprise you, which I think is like the whole point of meeting other people. And it's also never underestimate the power of just like going somewhere by yourself, like truly, like without a plan, like not going somewhere by yourself sitting there and being like, I have to talk to three people, just going there by yourself and just seeing what happens to like a show! Like shows are great because they give you like, like an art show or a music show or something that there's maybe, like a central communal activity, because then when there's the breaks, like when the band's over and you go outside to smoke, or you go to the bar for a drink, like that cadence sort of like refreshes the room? You know what I mean. And it sort of like mixes, mixes people up. And that's just like, a wonderful way to not just meet someone who could be the potential love of your life, but like, just remind yourself how connection begins in the first place. And yeah. Puts juice in the tank.

Myisha: I like it. I like juice in the tank. It's yeah!

Dylan: I do too. Kind of sounds like a rap song.

Myisha: Yeah. I mean, I recommend shows all the time. I recently, like, I saw a post that said that we should have single sections at music venues. And I thought it was really sweet and brilliant. And so I like put it on my stories, and it got shared like the most amount of times anything I've ever put up has, I think there's like a real yearning for spaces where you know you can go and like you kind of know other people are single or looking and are available like we're we're kind of out of practice of doing that, just like cold meeting when you're in a space like that, and like taking the risk of talking to someone who isn't available, or, you know, crossing a line or a boundary with someone mistakenly, you know it happens. So, yeah, I thought that was really sweet and wonderful. And if any venues implement that in the future, I want to hear about it, because I think it would be really fun to hear the stories that come from that.

Dylan: Yeah, I also think like, there's something too about like, aimlessness being a really nice thing sometimes where it's like, when we're on the apps, it feels like this chore and this to do list, and then you go out and it's another appointment in your calendar you have to meet and like, instead of maybe like, maybe something you could do, instead of being like, if I was gonna be on Hinge and try to set up a date for Thursday at 8pm and it's gonna last me three hours, if it goes well, and you block that off on your calendar instead, maybe just think of something you can do that's like, kind of aimless, but still give yourself the container to be that way, because it will maybe, like, loosen you up a bit. Like I've, I've had that experience where I'm like, if I just go somewhere without an agenda, but it's like an exploratory experience, it also helps me get into that element of surprise, which sort of welcomes in unexpected, sometimes exciting things.

Myisha: I'll add to that too for anyone who feels like that, like the idea of going someplace by themselves is scary, the idea of blocking off time for that and just doing something aimless is scary. Start with a small window of time and just say, I'm gonna go to this art show for 20 minutes. This is actually something that came up in a client session recently, not that I told them to do, but they told me that another coach they were working with offered that advice to, you know, making sure that they're attempting to build community in a sustainable way for them, so that you know it doesn't feel super overwhelming, but you are giving yourself that little nudge, that push of like, if I do it for 20 minutes, hey, I might end up actually enjoying myself more, and I'll stay but if not, I can pat myself on the back for even trying. You know?

Dylan: Exactly, yeah, and like normalizing that feeling too helps you continue to put a step in front of, one foot in front of the other.

Myisha: Yeah! Being out in public by yourself can be anxiety inducing, and it can be scary, but it also can be very, very fun. I want to hear from this person. I want to know what they end up doing and how they end up enjoying themselves, because right now, they're not enjoying themselves, and I want more fun for them in their future.

Dylan: Me too!

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Myisha: Okay, well, it's time for our last segment. I have three questions lined up for you that are all related to sex and dating, and you get to pick which one you want to answer.

Dylan: Oh god.

Myisha: You ready?

Dylan: I guess so!

Myisha: Okay! We'll see! Here are your choices.

Dylan: Okay.

Myisha: A, what's the album you have on repeat when you're going through a breakup?

Dylan: Bro.

Myisha: Very revealing question. B, what dating mishap still haunts you? Or C, what's worse, ghosting someone or someone ghosting you? And why?

Dylan: Oh, god. Bro, my, my, um, what's it called when the veterans of war look into the distance? That's the stare that I have on right now.

Myisha: Mmm, the 50 yard stare.

Dylan: I guess I'll do, I guess I'll do the mishap. I'm gonna do the mishap. And I'm sure I'm gonna think of so many, so many more, like funny and irreverent answers, because I am like the queen of mis happenings. But the one that comes to mind now is someone that I was with a few years ago, and it was a really intense connection. It was a wonderful person. It was like, I think it was the first time where I really was like, oh, this isn't maybe just a boyfriend. This could be more. And that was really revealing to me, and sort of teaching me that I did want more. And then it ended! But it didn't really end. [Laughs] And that's, I think, like the mishap in that is I kept letting myself like there would be little baits to sort of come back, but they weren't full throated, and they weren't really coming from a secure place. And I just wanted that idea of what I thought we could have so much that I just got sucked back in a couple times, and it just hurt worse and worse each time. And what I learned from that is just like, you know, take someone at their at their word and at their actions, and if they're if the word and the actions don't match up, that's the same thing that one negates the other, you know? So that was something that was like a really, really big learning experience for me, and has helped, helped me in other situations, because I just think, man! Straight men have, they have feelings. They're getting in touch with their feelings, but they haven't quite unpacked them to a point where they can really understand where these feelings are coming from, and like, if they're not ready, they're just not ready. So that's my mishap. Unfortunately, it's heavy. I have so many funny ones too. Here's a mishap! Do not go on a road trip to Arizona, pick up a cowboy who's really hot. If he's divorced and has two kids and he's 38, there is baggage. Run. Learn from me, run! Do not waste a year of your life. Just go!

Myisha: I think someone that I know narrowly missed that cowboy.

Dylan: Oh, god! Bro, we're on our Lana Del Rey shit out here. It can't be helped. Maybe I need you. Maybe I need to hire you.

Myisha: I'm always here Dylan, I'm always here.

Dylan: Thank you so much.

Myisha: Well, thank you for sharing. That's a mishap. The first one that you shared, not the not the cowboy. I think that's a little less —

Dylan: Yeah, one's a lot more universal than the other! [Laughs]

Myisha: Yes, yes, the first one is very common, and I love what you took away from that situation. And man, definitely the actions versus the words, when those don't line up, that is a big red flag. So there's, it’s just a universal lesson.

Dylan: Yeah, yeah. And something just to, just to add a little tack onto that, it's like, you know, I think a lot of the way that a lot of people cope with dealing with situations like that and feeling like duped or something, is looking at the other person who is confused in their own mind as some sort of, like, manipulative mastermind who's trying to be extractive and get the worst, like the best out of you, and just leave you out to dry. And I just think so many times it's really just someone is really confused and, like, not aligned with their own selves, and there's really not much you can do about that. It's not like there's some horrible person every single time that's trying to, like, ruin your life, even though it's sometimes really, really helpful to have your best friend over, like, four margaritas, you know, paint this person as the villain, but it's always complicated, and I think it sometimes helps me to have a little bit of compassion in the act of letting go just be like, that person's just not ready, man. He's not evil. He's just underbaked.

Myisha: Yeah, yep. I've definitely had the experience of, like, having those heartbreaking conversations, of, like, I guess, I guess we're not pursuing this because of vague reasons that you don't understand yourself, and then the person just being like, yeah, I need therapy. I'm like, oh, cool, that's all right, like I can handle that understanding. And just to bring it back to you and the work that you're doing, I am sure on Lost Notes, we're probably going to hear some stories of men with very complicated ideas about relationships and what they're capable of and not capable of, what they're promising versus what they're delivering. So, yeah, I'm just super excited for what you're bringing forward.

Dylan: Nailed it, my friend.

Myisha: You know, I can put my mind, my mind in the place of a groupie, for sure.

Dylan: Yes, yes. I think in terms of the themes of love and romance and sex and adventure and how all those things are related, there's a lot of universal stuff in this show that go far beyond just rock and roll.

Myisha: Yes, amazing. Well, thank you so much Dylan for being here. Tell everybody where they can find you and listen to Lost Notes.

Dylan: Yeah, you can find Lost Notes: Groupies anywhere you get your podcasts. Spotify, Apple, wherever. It's on the NPR Podcast Network, and you can follow me if you dare, on Instagram at yay Dylan. Dylan, spelled like Bob Dylan. I'll be posting a lot of fun side content about groupies, some of these iconic photos that I talk so much about on the show. But yeah, hope you tune in.

Myisha: Well, thanks again, Dylan. I really appreciate having you here today, and I can't wait to listen!

Dylan: Thanks! It was a blast. Cheered me right up.

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Myisha: And thank you for listening. Before we wrap up, I want to say thanks to everyone who's already sent in their dating horror stories. They are truly spooky, and there's still time to share your bad dates with us, just drop us an email or voice memo at sexlife@kcrw.org, we might feature it on the show, and you'll stay anonymous.

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Myisha: How's Your Sex Life is a KCRW original podcast. Our producer is Andrea Bautista. Our executive producer is Gina Delvac. This episode was recorded by Sue Margulies and mixed by Nick Lampone. Our music was created by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Special thanks to SF podcast studio, Myriam-Fernanda Alcala Delgado, Arnie Seipel and Jennifer Ferro. And a big shout out to our voice actors. We'll let them introduce themselves on the way out.

VO 1: This is Mike Vogle, thanks for listening!

VO 2: Hey! This is Emma Rothenberg. If you liked this episode, share it with a friend.

VO 3: This is Adria Kloke! See you next week for another episode of KCRW's How's Your Sex Life?