Anxious Mess full transcript

ALLISON BEHRINGER: It’s just after midnight and Reese and I are sitting in a big booth at a diner near Times Square. She’s wearing this white dress with a zipper down the front and, in typical Reese fashion, it’s speckled with food stains. I’ve been working on this story for a couple of weeks now. And this is the third time that Reese has asked me this question:

REESE PIPER: What do you think, after spending time with me?

ALLISON: What?

REESE: After spending time with me?

ALLISON: Tbh, I – if you didn’t tell me, if i didn’t know – hanging out with you, I wouldn’t suspect anything. Because you seem–

REESE: Fine.

ALLISON: Fine.

ALLISON: Fine. And the fact that Reese seems fine is the reason it took her so long to figure out what was going on with her. And it’s the reason that even now, after she’s solved her mystery, it’s really hard for her to get help.

This is Bodies, a podcast about people solving mysteries about their bodies. I’m Allison Behringer.
REESE: Hello. Hi. I'm Reese Piper and I'm a writer and a stripper and a journalist.
ALLISON: In 2016, Reese Piper moved to New York City to follow her dream of becoming a writer. So, as one does, she got an internship, unpaid, at an online magazine. And then to actually support herself, she found working stripping. Then, she got some roommates and an apartment. Her problems started pretty much right away.

REESE: I just really could not manage my day to day life. every day felt like it was this chaotic tornado.
ALLISON: She took the subway in the wrong direction, she forgot to take out the trash, she was late for work. Even something as simple as grocery shopping was a struggle for Reese. She tried everything – apps, Google Calendar, fish oil for concentration, phone reminders.

REESE: My sister bought me this really beautiful like expensive planner. But then I couldn’t read my own handwriting. It was like having a bad day, ​the same bad day,​ over and over again, realizing like I didn't do the dishes and realizing that my roommate was angry with me again and she sent me all these really mean messages like “You need to get your shit together,” kind of thing. This getting your shit together thing, it’s just part of growing up, right? Like all it takes some practice and discipline.

ALLISON: But no matter how hard she tried, Reese couldn’t even figure out the necessary steps to fix things. And at her writing internship, she was always behind on the two articles a day that the interns were expected to write.

REESE: Every single one of my peers can write this, in this, in this amount of time and I can't. I really really really beat myself up about it. I remember crying every single day in that bathroom.

ALLISON: This wasn’t the first time that Reese had struggled to be like other people. She’d spent her entire childhood feeling out of sync with the other kids.

REESE: I felt like something, that something was really different about me, like someone was going to come and rescue me, take me away because I did not belong in this world.

ALLISON: Which was part of why she loved reading Harry Potter so much – she wished she could be plucked from suburban life and dropped into a world where she was understood. She would build these imaginary worlds – mostly based on books – as an escape. But also, as a way to navigate reality. Like when she was being bullied at school, she’d play things out in her head as Harry to figure out how to be brave. Her favorite misfit character though, and the one she most related to, was Luna Lovegood-- the one who all the other kids called “Looney.” Reese eventually grew out of pretending to be Harry Potter characters, but navigating reality hasn’t gotten easier for her. Before her move to New York City, she had tried working in an office. The whole office banter thing thoroughly confused her. She used to write up these notecards for herself, things she could and couldn’t talk about.

REESE: Don't talk about, you know, your boobs. Like don't talk about when you're on your period. So you know you talk about like you know the weather, your dog. Dogs are very appropriate to talk about in every conversation.

ALLISON: So when she found herself running out of money to pay off her student loans, she was keen to find something that ​didn’t​ require her to keep her boob jokes to herself. And then, a friend of hers introduced her to stripping. And in the dressing room with the other girls, she found that she didn’t need notecards, she kinda fit right in.

REESE: But I didn't actually ever think that it is going to be something I would do for like three or four years. I just thought I would do it for like a couple of months.

ALLISON: Reese refers to her work as stripping, dancing, “the industry” or sex work. The term sex work, as Reese uses it, it doesn’t necessarily mean having sex. It’s a term that can mean anything from sugar babying, to stripping; porn, to prostitution and everything in between.

REESE: When I first started dancing. I just thought that like you all lined up and I thought the guys would walk in and pick his favorite. That is not how the strip club is run. It's run just like – it's like a pseudo bar. People are there drinking and then you approach them. And you are the one that's like the sales girl. I think that's what people don't realize about the industry, it’s like, we really have to convince them to spend.

ALLISON: And in order to convince, Reese performs.

One night, I tagged along with her to a strip club in midtown Manhattan. And here’s why I went with her – understanding Reese’s mystery actually has a lot to do with her work as a stripper.

We’re in the women’s bathroom. Reese is touching up her makeup. My phone is recording.

ALLISON: I zip my phone inside my bag before we walk out. In the dim lighting, no one can see the food and lipstick stains on her white dress. Compared to the other dancers, Reese looks a bit out of place. No cleavage pops out from her dress. And she’s short: If it weren’t for her four inch platform heels, she’d be standing 5’2”.
Reese walks up to a large older man.

ALLISON: What’s your name? He asks.

REESE: Piper.

ALLISON: Reese Piper is her stripper name actually – not her real name, her parents don’t know about her job. Sometimes when she’s dancing, she’ll go by Reese, sometimes she’ll go by Piper.

REESE: Piper is like this really fun, happy-go-lucky person. She sometimes teaches yoga that – I don't teach yoga – but she teaches yoga, haha. And she's always traveling and she's just really positive and happy.

ALLISON: She smiles, looks up at him. Your eyes are so blue! He says. Reese looks at ease in this conversation. As she’s told me before, it’s a simple script. She’s learned when to laugh, when to smile, when to lean in close.

REESE: I'm sort of like reading the energy and then I will morph for my own performance based off this. Like if he's someone who's traveled, like I've travelling or like if he's like someone who works in supply chain like my best friend works in supply chain. It’s sort of like making myself into someone they feel comfortable being with me. so that they will spend money, like it's a sales technique.

ALLISON: Before long, she’s moved on to another man. And after a quick chat, I see her lead him over to a row of leather chairs. She pulls the zipper down on her white dress to her black lingerie.
And then she gives her dance. Watching Reese that night, I understood something she had told me before – that besides the money, stripping gives her a chance for her to dress up and pretend to be someone else for a night, it’s an escape from the chaos of her everyday life. But outside the club, Reese was consumed by negative thoughts.

REESE: Feeling like then like I'm lazy, or that like I'm inconsiderate, that I'm selfish, that i’m a bad person. It was just like this constant wave of exhaustion and sort of just like the shame that came alongside with it because of not understanding what was going on.

ALLISON: And all that self-bera​t​ing was getting in the way of her writing. It was getting in the way of life. So Reese went to see a therapist for help.

REESE: The problem is when you go to a therapist as a sex worker, even when they are accepting, they have no concept of what your work is like.

ALLISON: And so Reese spent most of the session explaining stripping. And then the therapist suggested Google Calendar and other tools – all things that Reese had tried. She left the session without any concrete help, feeling like something was innately wrong with her that she couldn't fix.

REESE: And at this point I did want to get out of the industry. And I just remember crying like I'm never going to be able to leave stripping. How am I ever going to be able to have a job? If I can't show up to work on time? If I can't write emails without typos? Like how am I going to ever feel to keep a job if I can't even take out my trash on Tuesday? I was never going to be able to be successful.
ALLISON: After the internship, Reese tried to make it as a freelance writer. But no one was accepting her pitches. She spent a lot of days in bed, depressed and exhausted. She was getting desperate.
REESE: I had read women like all the stories of women who finally took Adderall after all these years of having these struggles with organization. It was like this big aha moment for them.
ALLISON: For a while, she had been suspecting that maybe she had ADD. Reese made an appointment with a psychiatrist.

REESE: I did read a few interviews saying that he was a bit sexist that I should have listened to them – really listen to reviews because no one says anyone is sexist unless someone is sexist.

ALLISON: The doctor’s office was small and messy – which actually made her hopeful that he’d understand her.

REESE: I just said I'm really struggling with organization. I'm struggling, keeping a schedule. I'm stressed out. I'm stressed out. I'm just really stressed. like I feel really overwhelmed by life.

REESE: And then he’s like, what do you do for work, and I was like I‘m a stripper! I’m a stripper! And then he’s like, you’re a stripper?

ALLISON: After a short conversation, he showed her a chart which laid out different disorders and the medication you need for it. He pointed to ADHD and wrote a prescription for Adderall – twenty milligrams.
REESE: And so then I asked the question, "What about drinking?” and he's like “Adderall is not a major drug. It's really benign. Don't worry.” He dismissed my concerns all together, he was just like, “Just don't, just don’t drink.” And then I was like wrapping up to pay, he then was like Are you going to pay for this session in dollar bills?

ALLISON: Reese left the office in a ball of shame. She got on the subway, but when she got off to transfer lines, she started to panic. Here she was. She was standing on the platform, trying to process the doctor’s words, but the lighting, the noise, the people crisscrossing around in front of her – it was all too much. She pushed her way up the stairs and walked the rest of the way home.

REESE: And yeah I just went into my bed and I think I slept for like two days. Because it was like I really wanted to help, and I really thought maybe like maybe this would be like maybe I would just take his medication. And I would feel better and I would be able to be on time and have a regular job. And then I woke up and I was like, Alright I'm going to see him ever again. But I do want to try the Adderall and I'm not going to let him get in the way of me trying to get some help. The Adderall was GREAT in some ways. It put me in a really good mood. which is really great for working. Adderall is like a stripper's dream drug. Like my income went up almost drastically because I was in such a positive happy mood.

ALLISON: Essentially, she was high. Her energy was endless. And lot of nights she was bringing in one, two grand. But there were three problems with the Adderall: One, it wasn’t helping her organization and daily living skills. Two, it was ​harder​ to write.

REESE: I was finding myself getting really obsessive. Zoom into like one paragraph and then I couldn't write like the rest of the article.

ALLISON: And three, even though stripping on adderall was more lucrative, it was also making it dangerous. Before, she’d have maybe 3 drinks over the course of a night. But on Adderall, she was the life of the party – talking to more customers, doing shots with them, dance after dance after dance. Drinking a lot.

REESE: I had one night where I got really drunk. I remember, I walked home. And that's a big big no no. Never walk home from the club because guys can follow you out of there. And you also have cash on you.
I walked home. I woke up in the morning with no memory of working that night. And I had twelve hundred dollars in cash. Nothing bad happened that night. But it was a wake up call. After I came home that night with all that cash and realizing that I walked home and really risked my life.

ALLISON: Reese had always approached stripping with caution. This was the first ​time​ she had woken up without memory of the night before.

REESE: I was like OK this is not who I am. You know, stripping can be as safe as you want it to be. But if you're getting drunk every night it's not going to be safe.

ALLISON: At this point, she’d been in New York for almost a year. She’d been on medication for 5 months. Things hadn’t improved. Maybe becoming a writer was just another imaginary world of hers.

ALLISON: One afternoon, Reese was lying on her unmade bed. Empty coffee cups piled up on the window sill. Clothes covered the floor. She was on her laptop, looking through a FB group for women with ADD. She typed out a question:

REESE: Do stimulants make anyone else a depressed anxious mess? Does anyone get lost in obsessive thoughts with no concept of time? Supercritical yourself, mix up words. Repetitive thoughts. I'm a writer and I’ll rework the same paragraph over and over again. It's hard for me to switch tasks; in some cases, even switch my energy into another conversation..

ALLISON: A woman responded right away: Have you considered ASD? Reese had not. She didn’t even know what ASD stood for. She googled it: Autism spectrum disorder.

REESE: I was like No, there’s no way. Because to me, like autism was someone like really struggled socially. And while I've had social blunders in my life, I am someone who enjoys being around people. And in my image of what an autistic person was, was just really neat and orderly. It was someone really focused on time. and I was like well I'm late all the time, how does that work?

ALLISON: One of them linked to an article about autism in women and girls. She started reading the checklist of traits: And as she read through that list, with each point, she saw herself. But it was this one that really stuck out to her:

REESE: Autistic girls and women often have active imaginations. Many autistic girls use imagination as escape from reality and they have highly developed inner worlds, and engage in complex imaginative play.
That was like actually when I stepped away from the computer and I was like Oh, I've had this thing so secretive and so hidden in my life and then to be so easily explained. I’m autistic and there’s no cure.
And then I was like “Ah. I'm autistic.” And then I cried and cried and cried and cried and cried because I was like I wasn't going to get better. I just realized right then and there that I wasn't going to be normal. We can have all these conversations like, what is normal? But that person who always says that doesn't know what it's like to not be normal. No medication is going to help. I'm always going to be unorganized and miserable. I used to think that I wasn't having relationships because I was in the industry. But that's not it. Like I'm not having relationships because I'm too afraid to bring anyone home.

I'm so messy or I'm too afraid, too embarrassed to let anyone see my chaotic life. And always having to apologize for yourself. And so it makes it really difficult to let anyone into that life. And so I just remember telling my roommate “Look I'm like I'm never going to be able to fall in love, like it's never going to happen for me like I'm never going to live a normal life.”

ALLISON: This was a kind of rock bottom for Reese. She’d been digging for an answer her whole life and what she finally found at the bottom--it still didn’t make sense and isn’t wasn’t providing her a way out. When we think of autism, I think a lot of us think of an awkward little kid, maybe who doesn’t speak, who gets put in special classes in school. But what was Reese – a grown woman supposed to do with this self-diagnosis? She didn’t want to see any more doctors. And so feeling like there was nothing she ​could​ do, she figured she’d just get away.

REESE: I had a bit of money saved at that point. And I just felt like I need to just go on a nice holiday where I'm not working where I'm not like in the industry where I'm not focused on this.

ALLISON: So she booked a flight to Berlin. And far away from the demands of having to buy herself groceries and take the right subway, that despair and hopelessness started to lift.

REESE: Every morning I’d wake up and I'd read all these articles about autism and like the way that it expressed in women.

ALLISON: So, if you look up the official definition of autism in the DSM, a manual on diagnosing mental disorders, ​autism spectrum disorder has two main features. One: trouble with social interactions and two: repetitive behaviors. But Reese dug even deeper into the research.

And she started reading study after study showing that girls and women with autism are fundamentally different than boys and men with autism. Like, for example, girls on the spectrum display less repetitive behaviors like arm flapping, which you see a lot in boys on the spectrum.

Then, Reese came across another big difference between boys and girls: Girls also tend to struggle more than boys with planning and daily living skills. The missed trains, the messy room, the grocery shopping struggles.

REESE: It all made sense. and it was just all this big coming undone process.

ALLISON: She thought about how many other women must be struggling in the same way she was - other women who never took the right subway, who couldn’t keep a schedule, other women who had been told they were just depressed, or had ADHD, or that they just needed to grow up! She thought about how, just like her, those women weren’t able to get help because when we picture autism, we still picture a little boy who won’t make eye contact, who would rather line up his toy trains than play with other kids.
And so she got an idea. She would write an article based on her own experience. She would help other women understand that there’s more to autism than meets the eye.

Back in New York, Reese wrote a pitch to The Establishment, an online media site. She didn't have high expectations – none of her writing hadn’t been published since she finished her internship. But this pitch was accepted right away. She decided she would write the article under a new pen name, her stripper name, Reese Piper. 

She got to work.

REESE: I kind of went on a journey of looking into what's going on. Why was it that I was struggling so much organizationally? And why are like autistic women struggling more organizationally
ALLISON: One of the first things she did was reach out to Julia Bascom, the director of the Autism ​Self Advocacy Network. It’s a nonprofit and the largest autism advocacy organization run entirely by autistic people. Here’s Julia:

JULIA BASCOM: So autism is a different way of having a brain.The traits that are visible and the most salient to non-Autistic people are just the tip of the iceberg. Autism is a very internal experience. And we also tend just to learn differently and to have a lot of problems with executive functioning.

ALLISON: Executive functioning: this is your brain’s ability to switch gears. It affects memory, self-regulation, attention and your ability to do things that come naturally to what’s called neurotypical people.

JULIA: For a neurotypical person going grocery shopping, that is one task. For an autistic person going grocery shopping, that might be like six tasks. You have to remember what's involved in grocery shopping.

You have to successfully keep yourself on track and complete all of the steps. you have to deal with a sensory overload of the grocery store-- the kid crying over by the bananas, the fluorescent lights overhead, the beeps the machines are making.

And then after all of that you get home, but you're not done. You might be exhausted but you have to put everything away. And then you have to like plan meals based on the groceries you've got and so on and so forth.

When you talk about autism I think a lot of people only think about social skills. And in reality often the most disabling parts of autism are the things like executive functioning that make it really hard to complete activities of daily living.

All along, executive functioning was one of Reese’s biggest challenges--this could have potentially been a clue for a doctor or therapist. But before talking to Julia, Reese had never even heard the word for it.

REESE: Well why didn't anyone bring this up? I had been in therapy for a year complaining of executive functioning. But no one brought up autism.

ALLISON: Something important to know about Reese’s story: to date, no medical professional has officially diagnosed Reese with autism spectrum disorder. It’s a self-diagnosis. I talked to a leading autism psychologist who stressed how important a medical diagnosis is. But many people within the autism community say that self diagnosis is valid. And one part of their reasoning is that your identity and life experience – race, class, location, and in Reese’s case, gender, can be a big factor in whether you get diagnosed.
The thing about autism, it’s not a disease, it’s not even a mental illness. It's a disorder or a condition that looks a little different in everyone. Essentially, it’s a collection of symptoms that a group of psychologists drew a line around. This of course, is not inherently a problem – lines need to be drawn somewhere. But it is a problem when you’re drawing those lines based on just one section of the population.

JULIA: We know that the diagnostic criteria are normed off of 4 year old white boys from upper middle class families. So anyone who doesn't fit in that box has an uphill climb because your life will look different so you'll act differently.
A lot of the research that we do have, shows that if you have an autistic girl and an autistic boy and you're sort of doing an assessment checklist before you refer someone for a full diagnosis. The girl has to actually display more autistic traits before she'll get referred. So we know that there's also bias happening at the provider level.

In fact, girls who have mild symptoms of autism are diagnosed two years later than boys.

ALLISON: So why the difference in how autism is expressed? There’s some biologically-based theories that have to do with brain structure and X chromosomes. But there are also theories that point to how we’re socialized--that girls are ​expected​ to talk more, or that they’re punished more harshly for not making eye contact or for doing repetitive behaviors.

REESE: All this research is coming out now that a lot of autistic women will camouflage their autism or like sort of either unconsciously or consciously hide the fact that they are autistic in like daily interaction either through scripted behavior or like mimicking behavior.

And that was like, oh that's why I'm like a really good stripper! That makes so much sense, because I had been subconsciously learning scripts my whole life. Like stripping, which is a set of scripts that you pick up, and you interact with people in these sort of really scripted behaviors.

ALLISON: Reese’s propensity to mimic and to pick up scripts is the thing that’s made her a good stripper and what allowed her to “get by” in this world. But it’s also the thing that’s made her struggle invisible. And when no one can see your disability--when you ​seem​ fine--it can be hard to get support.
Here’s Julia Bascom again:

JULIA: The saying in the community is low functioning, it means your strengths get ignored and high functioning means that your needs get ignored.
Autism is a disability.

I always get a little frustrated when people say it’s not a disability, it’s a difference. Because it is a disability, and that’s ok. Being disabled is ok. Most autistic people need some kind of long term support.

Like, I – I don't live on my own. I needed accommodations to do this interview. My support person is like through that door. But I'm doing a radio interview, like who am I. Like it's complicated. The reality is autistic people are usually just more complex than that term allows.

ALLISON: As of now, Reese doesn’t have accommodations in her life. She’s actually in the process of getting a medical evaluation for autism. As she puts it, she’s 100% sure she is autistic, but she’s hopeful that a diagnosis will lead to more support, like a therapist who’s specially trained in working with autistic adults or some classes to improve her daily living skills. In the meantime, the simple act of identifying as autistic is what’s making the difference for Reese right now.

One of the ​most​ positive things that came out of her identifying as autistic and learning what autism means for women – is that for the first time in her life, she’s started to accept herself.

REESE: For the first time I think I really like forgave myself. I was like “Oh, OK I missed the train. Oh well, the next one will come.” Like before, it was like, “Oh my god, what's wrong with me.” At that point I was just really ready and to learn more and to sort of forgive myself of all this like self-loathing, sort of like let it sort of dissipate.

ALLISON: I think sometimes we don’t realize how heavy shame is until it’s lifted. And without the shame weighing her down, Reese started spending less time beating up on herself, and more time taking her writing one step at a time. The article took her a month to write, but she was a little more patient with herself.

REESE: and I think a big moment for me was when this article came out. I mean it went viral. I remember I was at work and I realized like I was like “Oh my god everyone come on come look!” Strippers are each other’s cheerleaders so that was really positive.

ALLISON: Reese has also come to appreciate that being a stripper is a job that accommodates her disability pretty well – she can come and go as she pleases, makes enough money to take time off to rest and write. And it fits her skillset – being autistic has made her a pretty darn good stripper.

REESE: It's a blessing to have stripping​.​ It has been a major major blessing in my life. I think when you're autistic you're so used to like shutting down your voice because you're constantly questioning your own reality, you’re constantly told that your reality is wrong. I do really think that gave my voice back. And they’re both identities where you have to do the work to understand what's happening to you, because people will define your reality.

ALLISON: It’s been a year since Reese made this self discovery of autism. And in that year, she’s achieved a lot: Her writing about autism and stripping has appeared in some major online publications.
She’s also realized that New York isn’t a good place for someone struggling with executive functioning. So she travels a lot and dances in different cities. She was in Florida when I called her up to see how she was doing.

REESE: I feel like a whole new person, like who I was a year ago. And who I was the year before that. This hasn’t been a magic bullet​.​ There are still about 2 days a week when I'm in bed. I still need to really find myself, how it is I will move around in the world as an autistic person.

Conclusion

In my time with Reese working on this story, there’s been the question hanging in the air. ​She’s wondering if ​I’m ​wondering if she’s actually autistic – Reese is articulate, she’s funny, she’s always asking me about my own life. But getting to know her, it’s become clear that what ​I ​perceive doesn’t tell me a thing about someone’s internal experience. And I realized that what I ​thought​ I knew about autism has been subtly influenced by the forces of sexism and male-driven science.

I think when we are struggling with something, we have these two competing urges: to shout from the rooftops, “I’m having a hard time!” But to also cover up our problems and appear, well, fine.

Reese has stopped shouting into the void, and started writing. And she isn’t covering up anything anymore. She’s doing just fine. It’s not the “fine” she spent most of her life seeking, but it definitely is not imaginary.
A quick note on language in this episode. It’s often recommended to use person-first language, like ​woman​ with autism. However, Reese, and many people in the autism community, use identity-first, like autistic woman.
Identity-first embraces autism as part of a person’s identity rather than a condition that is separate from them. I’ve defaulted to the preferences of Reese and Julia and others I interviewed for this episode. You can find Reese Piper on Twitter @thenudereporter.

This week in the Bodies Facebook group, we’ll be sharing resources and articles about autism, as well as Reese’s writing. Thanks to everyone who has joined the group. I feel like we’re really building something special there. You can find a link to the Bodies facebook group in the show notes or by going to KCRW.com/bodies. Come share your reactions to the episode, your stories, your knowledge. Nothing is off the table, and everyone is welcome. You can also follow the show on Twitter at @bodiespodcast and me at @albtweetin. That’s A L B TWEETIN. If you like Bodies, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts - it really helps other people find the show. Thank you to everyone who already has. One more thing, if YOU have a medical mystery that you think would be a fit for this podcast, email me: allison@bodiespodcast.com

This episode was produced and edited by me, Allison Behringer. Sharon Mashihi is the editorial advisor. Additional editorial support from Camila Kerwin and Kristen Lepore. Original score and sound design by Dara Hirsch. Thanks also to Caitlin Peirce, Chiquita Pascal, Amanda, Catherine, Brian, Sam, Ana, and Molly who provided feedback on this episode. Cover artwork by Sarah Bachman. Episode art by Kathy Farthing. Bodies is made with support from KCRW’s Independent Producer Project. Special thanks to managing editor Kristen Lepore, as well as Nick White and the whole KCRW team. I’m Allison Behringer and this is Bodies. See you in two weeks.