Orgasm Sex Full transcript

[COLD OPEN]

Myisha Battle: Asking what your partner likes in bed. Is it nosy or helpful?

Sam Sanders: It's helpful. It's helpful, gosh, it's helpful. And like asking before, asking during, and asking after.

Myisha: Thank you. Feedback!

Sam: Feedback! You know what? Sometimes what you need after sex is a postgame meeting.

[MUSIC / INTRO]

Myisha: From KCRW, this is "How's Your Sex Life?" I'm Myisha Battle. And I am so excited to be here today with a fellow podcaster and journalist. You know him. You love him. Sam Sanders. He has a podcast that's out every week called Vibe Check. Please check it out. And I just have one question for you, Sam. Before we get started with giving the people some advice.

Sam: Okay. Yeah, let's do it.

Myisha: Alright. How's your sex life?

Sam: (Laughter) Uhhhh ahh.... it's pretty good. It's just everything outside the bedroom that's the problem.

Myisha: Okay, that's real! Thank you.

Sam: Listen, listen, you get inside the bedroom? Sure. I know what to do. Outside. You're like, "Oh, you talk. You think. You have needs." Wow.

Myisha: So I take it single and dating?

Sam: Single and treading water.

Myisha: Okay, okay.

Sam: Single and treading water.

Myisha: Like a lot of our listeners, honestly.

Sam: Yeah. Yeah. I had a breakup in July. Okay. And this is what? December. Yeah. So a few months?

Myisha: Yeah. Six months? Yeah. That's always like, an interesting time. Because it's like, am I ready? Am I not? It depends on how long you were together. But you know, like six months post breakup is like a, it's either like, woohoo! Like, all bets are off. Or it's like, I'm still I don't know, is this is this what I should be doing?

Sam: And the thing no one tells you is that often you will fluctuate between both of those poles in the span of day. So there's that, you know. So, life! Love!

Myisha: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, what we do here is, is try to help people through those moments. So with that, why don't we get into our first question.

Sam: Let's do it. Yeah.

Myisha: Okay, let's take a listen.

Question 1: Does the classic advice to always masturbate before a date actually work?

Sam: That's! (Laughter) I have been talking for a living for damn near 15 years, until you've already got me twice.

Myisha: (Laughter) I didn't mean to turn this into a gotcha media, but....

Sam: I like it! I like it, I like it, I like it!

Myisha: Okay, well what do you think about this one? I have my thoughts as a sex coach. But like, do you have strong opinions about this?

Sam: I don't, because I've done both. And I feel like, if there's a vibe, there's going to be a vibe, regardless of what you do down there before. I think if anything, what you want is the ability before you go to bed with anyone to maybe discuss those kinds of things and be open to talking about them. You know, it's like, I think a lot of times, especially, you know, in my 20s, it's like, there was this idea that if a first date goes well, you go to bed, but there's no discussion at the first date about what you might want your sex life to be like, or what your sex life is. And so for me, when I hear that question, it's more like eh it doesn't matter if you masturbate before the date or not. It matters if you go on a date with someone who you feel comfortable talking about masturbation with.

Myisha: Oh, yes.

Sam: So you know, I would reframe the question.

Myisha: I love that.

Sam: Am I setting myself up for dates and conversations with potential partners that allow me to be open about my sex life?

Myisha: Right.

Sam: Because we're gonna be having sex! That's the goal.

Myisha: That is the goal. If all goes well, whether it's date one, date ten, six months from now.

Sam: Yeah.

Myisha: You know. I'm definitely somebody who believes talking about sex early and often is the thing. Like, or what are we doing?

Sam: Yes. And understanding that, like, it is a thing that can that can get better over time, it can get worse over time. And it can change with work. You know, I think for a long. I think, you know, you know, I'm 39. I grew up in the era of 90s rom-coms. And they kind of make you believe that if it's the one, the sex will be great from the first time going forward and you'll never have to like check in on it.

Myisha: That's right.

Sam: It's just like, whoa. But in actuality, you know, getting sex right is like, you know, getting your restaurant order right. Look at the menu. What do you want? Ask a few questions. How spicy is this dish? Do you want to share these plates or have separate like, it's the same thing, same thing.

Myisha: Totally! And when I work with clients, I'm always using food metaphors. And I definitely believe that if we could talk more about sex like we do about what we want to eat we would all be better served in all manners of the word. So, yeah no, I mean, this is an interesting question to me because it's one of those things. You know, you mentioned 90s rom-coms I'm thinking about like, There's Something About Mary, right, where this comes up. Ben Stiller's character tries to jerk off before his date and comedy ensues.

Sam: Yes.

Myisha: And the idea here is that, you know, for anybody who's not familiar with this notion it's that if you masturbate you're going to be, you know, maybe more calm and less, like, obsessed with like, your carnal desires for your date. And I am right there with you, Sam. I think that if you want to have sex with somebody it doesn't matter if you have already had solo sex beforehand, you know, that desire is still going to be there especially because it's like the beginning stages. It's the getting to know you, it's the ooh you like that? I like that. You know there's a lot that's like very stimulating that's going to happen from a first date especially if it goes really well. So you know, I will say that my only caveat to that is like if this is going to make you feel better going into the scenario then all by all means. This isn't like a ‘this always works’ as this question asker posted.

Sam: Yea totally and also, it's like, maybe you want a date that ends in sex and maybe you don't. Like, I wouldn't make it. I wouldn't have any hard and fast rule about what to do before a first date because there are different kinds of first dates. There are different kinds of first dates, and it's like, what do you want your first date to be? Think about that too.

Myisha: Excellent advice. Thank you. So we have our next question, which is a little bit longer. And let's listen to that.

Sam: Okay.

Question 2: Hey, Misha, here's my question. My partner and I are both 49 years old, and we've been together for a year. Lately, almost every time we try to have sex he does not get hard and never finishes. I get tired from trying to stimulate him and when he can't come, I blame myself. I've always needed more sex than my partners and when I get into it I need even more. So when someone approached me recently asking for my number I gave it to him. We met up and he got really hard just from kissing me. Nothing else happened, but it felt good to know that I am able to arouse another person. As men age are they just not as sexual? Is it the drinking that destroys his libido? He drinks a bottle or two of wine every night. I love him and I want to be with him, but I also need sex and more intimacy and togetherness time. Help!

Sam: That's a doozy. That's a doozy!

Myisha: Lots of parts. Lots of parts, especially that last bit. They had with the "is it the drinking?" So I'll start us off here which is that, you know, drinking a bottle or two of wine a night is probably not good for your sexual functioning. In fact, I know, I know that it is not good for your sexual functioning. So there could be something going on there with the drinking. And not just that he's drinking and not interested in sex, but like, why the drinking? What's behind this every single night? Because that does seem like a lot to have as your kind of like nightly wind down. What do you think?

Sam: I think that like, according to like the guidelines that doctors who study this stuff give us, definitionally he has a drinking problem, right? And so like, I would make that a topic of conversation. If you're intimate with this person and you're someone who is a big part of his life I think it's totally appropriate for you to say in a kind way, at the right moment, "As someone close to you, I'm worried about your drinking." But I wouldn't bring up drinking and sex together. I'd bring up the drinking first and on its own. You know? The second thing I would urge her to do, maybe even before she has a conversation about what she needs during sex from him, is to consider that like not all of it is her fault. And fault is a hard word to even use right now. I wouldn't even call it fault but like, don't think he's not getting hard just because of you. It kind of hurt me to hear you say, "Well, when I made out with this other guy and he got hard it made me feel better. It made me feel good." Like your worth is not defined by whether or not you get other people hard. There are ways to find sexual fulfillment without erection or ejaculation and not all sex has to end with quote unquote completion.

Myisha: Thank you.

Sam: Also, your sexual worth, and your sex drive, and your sex life is a lot of times very separate and apart from our sometimes intimate partners, and sometimes the things he's dealing with or thinking about that might be causing the lack of erection, have nothing to do with you. It could be other shit. I mean, I'm 39 right now and the thing that I noticed, that's different from when I was in my 20s, is like my emotional health affects my sex drive. In my 20s it didn't. I can be happy, I can be sad, I can be angry, I can be exhausted. You know, if it was time to go, it's time to go. But the older we all get… men, women, everybody, our sexual activity is more dependent on all of the other parts of our lives and our bodies being right. So think about that. I would also urge you to have a conversation with this partner about what the guidelines or protocols for intimacy with other people might be because I don't think you mentioned that in the advice question. But think carefully about how you're supposed to or not supposed to share about other intimate partners if y'all have that kind of arrangement. You know, whatever you do, I'm saying just like be open and honest. Sorry, I rambled a bit.

Myisha: No, you did not actually there, you hit on a lot of really important points. And I think that last one is key here, it does seem like this is not part of the arrangement that the two of them have in their relationship. And so what we're really talking about here is that there's a serious breakdown in the intimacy of your relationship. And I would say, this is not just sexual intimacy, but it's probably emotional intimacy, as well. And, you know, that is a ‘we problem’ to tackle. So I think that that's also a point of conversation. Yes. Okay. I'm concerned about your drinking. And the drinking also might be getting in the way of this person's ability to be emotionally connected in a relationship. And if that's the case, you know, is that going to work for you long term? If this is something that they have to really address and work through are you, are you here for that? And if you're not there for that, or you want to be but you also want to get your sexual needs met, yes some transparency needs to be introduced into the relationship around, you know, what that might look like for you seeing other people while they figure their shit out. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Sam: Yeah, I will say this, it seems like overall, from the outside looking in, and just this one advice question. Seems like neither of them are getting what they want from this relationship right now.

Myisha: Yeah.

Sam: And it's totally appropriate to have a conversation and a heart to heart and say, "Are either of us getting what we need?" And if we're not, you know, it's okay to be like, okay. It's okay to say, this might not be the one. The thing. It sounds like her head and her heart are already halfway out of the relationship anyway.

Myisha: Yeah. Yeah. That's what it’s sounding like to me as well. So I think we've given this question asker more to think about and also some very practical questions to ask their partner. And I would say like, if you don't feel like you can ask your partner these things, if you're like I don't know if we can have these kinds of conversations, that's another sign. You know, like, it may feel hard to do but if you feel like "Oh, I could never, I could never talk to them about this, that or the other thing." That's another indicator that maybe this relationship is… it needs to be reevaluated. We're gonna take a very quick break, but when we get back, we're gonna get into the tricky subject of STI disclosure. Sam, you gonna stick around for that?

Sam: Yeah, that's it. I don't think it's tricky. Disclose! Disclose! Oh my god.

Myisha: (Laughter) Okay, okay, awesome.

[BREAK]

Myisha: And we're back. Let's get into our last question.

Question 3: Hey Myisha! Long ago, my soon to be ex-husband gave me herpes. It wasn't a big deal in our marriage, and I rarely have outbreaks. But now that I'm single-ish, what do I do? Do I disclose it? Even though it's not a big deal and rarely happens? And if I do disclose it when do I do that? Does this mean that hookups are off the table? It's nerve racking enough that I am thrown back into dating and new sexual encounters, but I also have this stigma that I have never had to navigate before. By the way, I can guarantee that my ex is not sharing his status with the women that he's hooking up with.

Myisha: I love that shade at the end! (Laughter)

Sam: Yes, also one, at some point you're gonna have to move past your ex. I get it. He gave you the gift that keeps on giving, but if you want peace you're gonna have to forgive and try to forget first of all.

Myisha: She's like do I have to do it? Because I know he's not!

Sam: Yes, yeah! This question is seething with anger at her ex and listen, I get it, I'd be angry too. Yeah, but for you to have peace, it might help to forgive first of all. Second of all, when do you disclose about herpes? Before you have sex!

Myisha: 100 percent.

Sam: And that's that. I am assuming, and this is me as a gay man, I'm assuming that the person writing this question is straight because queer men, gay men, are so past these hang ups because a good portion of the gay community is living with HIV. And they're taking pills to treat it. And it's a thing you disclose, but it's never an issue once you disclose it. I have had sexual relationships with people who have been HIV positive and undetectable. And it is literally a conversation that takes 30 seconds.

Myisha: Right.

Sam: "You got the right pill, I got the right pill. Okay!" And that's it. And I think that it would be great for people all across the sexuality spectrum to think about it like that. It's just a box to check. It's a box to check, you know, also, also, we're talking about herpes. Everybody has herpes. Everybody has herpes! Everybody gets a cold sore. Everybody has a bit like you're not alone. And there's a good chance that the people that you're afraid to tell you have herpes also have herpes.

Myisha: Yep.

Sam: So just let me tell you, for the sexual health of this nation and for your peace of mind, just tell people. Just tell people.

Myisha: Yeah, and I think that like, what we're really hearing here is the fear of rejection because, as you mentioned, in the straight world, there's a there's a lot more stigma. And there's a lot more about like, "Is she clean? And is he clean?" And all of that. Is she pure and...

Sam: Is she pure, and all these notions of feminine purity and bullshit, and ugh I hate it.

Myisha: Right and it can be so, you know I've worked with quite a few clients who have recently received a diagnosis of an STI. It can really cut to the core because it lands like, "I am a bad person, I did a bad thing. I deserve this punishment that I received." And I mean, for anybody who is listening who may have struggled with that, let me just tell you, I mean we are human organisms and we are susceptible to infections. And we, you know, luckily have a lot of resources now to help us manage this. This person has said, you know, "I don't have that many outbreaks." You probably also know what triggers an outbreak. For a lot of people it's stress. For a lot of people, it's a cold. So when you have an outbreak, that's when you need to be the most concerned about spreading it, but being transparent from the outset of the relationship is so important so a person can assess their own risk, too. And I fully agree with you, Sam, like once that disclosure happens, nine times out of ten I've had clients who have said, you know, "Oh, yeah, no, the person was like totally okay with it also said they have herpes, or they felt like, oh, okay, now I can disclose that I have this other thing. And you know, we had a really good talk about it. And, you know, then ultimately decided we wanted to have sex." Great!

Sam: And if it's someone who gets the heebie jeebies around something like that, you don't want to be with them anyway! You don't want to be with him anyway. You want someone who is going to at least try to accept you from the start. And all of you from the start.

Myisha: Yes. Yes.

Sam: Also, you gotta release that blame and hatred towards your ex husband. You coulda got it from anybody. Like I mean, like you got it from him, but you coulda got it somewhere else. Like, free yourself. Do not like, do not let your ex husband live in your brain rent free. Oh my god, you divorced him for a reason to be rid of him. Be free, release yourself!

Myisha: There you go. Oh, I hope that this gives this question asker a sense of freedom and a sense that you can go out and date and hook up responsibly. Yeah, you can. You can and I want all the fun for you because I think maybe some fun will help her forget about this ex.

Sam: Oh, totally.

Myisha: Yeah. All right. Before I let you go, I want to play a little game and I came up with this game because with Vibe Check you know you have a lot of conversations about, you know, a wide range of topics, you're really not afraid to go anywhere. And you know, this conversation is also proof of that. You're also a journalist, so it's your job to kind of like get in people's business sometimes. So the statements that I have here, I want you to tell me if you think they're being nosy or helpful.

Sam: Ohh. Well, I mean, as a messy Leo my goal was to always do both.

Myisha: Be nosy and helpful? I love that. Okay, yeah, I feel the same way as a coach, too. I'm like, let me get in there and then let me help you out. Let me help you out with your with whatever it is. Okay. So when someone asks you your pronouns, is that being nosy? Or is that helpful?

Sam: I think it depends on the uniformity of the ask.

Myisha: Okay, tell me, what's your ideal?

Sam: If you only ask people who look a certain way their pronouns it might raise some question marks for me. If you ask most, or all of the new people you meet what their pronouns are, that feels a little better. I don't know.

Myisha: So it's leaning nosy for you, though, generally? Yeah. If it's just like, I'm picking out the people that I think I have a question around.

Sam: Yeah. Because like, if we know at this point, you know that the way someone presents is not always the full story of their gender expression.

Myisha: Right.

Sam: You have to be really careful and aware of like, I don't know, is your question stereotyping? That would be my worry, right, and so in general I try to wait until people want to tell me their pronouns. And my default now, especially if it's for folks that I haven't seen yet, and I'm talking about I try to use they/them until I know. I try to use they/them until I know. I don't always get it right, but that's kind of my goal. Yeah, because it's like, yeah, I just want to be sensitive. I might not be doing it the right way. But that's how I do it now.

Myisha: Yeah, I have found myself employing that tactic as well. Now that I think about it. I've started, you know, yeah, trying to not make a gender assumption right off the bat and just sort of use a gender neutral. Yeah.

Sam: Yeah. Cuz we know about assume! Assume makes an ass out of you and me. It's a cliche, but it works.

Myisha: Okay, what about asking deeply personal questions on a first date?

Sam: That depends if you're there. You know, I live in California, Southern California, and I've had some dates with some woowoo people who are just deep and spiritual and centered and they want to go there. And sometimes I'm like, yeah, let's do it! Get another round, let's go there! But you gotta read the room and read the person. Yeah, I think if you have people who are, I don't know, functioning on the same vibrational energy, it might work. I personally, my way into deep conversations is often through non-serious topics. I love to talk about a movie you like, a TV show you like, a book, you just read, some music you're into and then get into some themes that are like bigger and about life. You know, that's my favorite way in as a journalist who covers a lot, a ton of pop culture. I also am never tired of talking about the weather and parking in Southern California. Quiet as it's kept. Everyone in SoCal loves to talk about the weather and parking. They do!

Myisha: I can't I mean, I guess...

Sam: Your producer is shaking their head yes right here across the glass!

Myisha: Wow.

Sam: Cuz what did we talk about when I got to the studio? The weather. Remember that? Yes, we did Gina! Anywho. I don't mind it, but I'm a small talker by nature. My father was the world's most notorious small talker.

Myisha: Wow, I. You know what I go deep. And I do look for permission. You know, I don't go too deep without...

Sam: Wait, how do you get permission? Do you like, "can I ask you a deep question" is to how you like, because that would scare me.

Myisha: Actually, yeah. Sometimes I do that! And it kills my partner where I'm like, "Listen, I need to ask you something, but you know, when you have time." And he's like, "Oh, no, no, no, you ask me right now." And I'm like, "Well, I was just thinking, what do you think about this?" And it's usually, it's like, maybe not even deep. And he's like, "What, why did, why did you scare me like that?" Yeah, I think like, I'll like wait till I feel like the person's opening up. I mean, you know, I'm a good I'm a good reader of humans. So I can kind of tell when they're open and I can also tell if I've hit a limit, but yeah, I think I like the chit chat and the small talk, it just, yeah I don't know, it's hard for me.

Sam: See, I'm one of those like, my favorite default mode for a first date is just to quickly assess whether or not they can extend the bit. Because for me, it's like if we can make each other laugh and get in the same kind of mindset, in terms of humor, then everything else can open up.

Myisha: Yeah.

Sam: But yeah, I'm a big ‘extend the bit’ guy. And then once we do that, you know, that said, it makes me think you know, how to ask hard questions on the first date or do you want to. I think it's also a moment to like assess whether or not the questions we think we're supposed to ask actually need to be asked. Let me tell you what I'm tired of hearing on first dates. "So how many siblings do you have?" Who cares? You want to date them?

Myisha: (Laughter) I was gonna say!

Sam: Like, think of a better question! How many siblings do you? I don't, I don't know. I didn't bring them to this date. Jesus. Sorry.

Myisha: No, no, no. I mean, that's true, see so you do have a little bit of a boundary around small talk, because that's one of those. It's like specific kinds of small talk.

Sam: Yes. But also, though, because I'm very conflict averse when I'm asked this question on the first date I'm like, "Oh, I'm so glad you asked!"

Myisha: Have you ever had someone just say like no, like, or you know, I'm not answering that. You know what I mean?

Sam: I wanna try that!

Myisha: I think it'd be so refreshing. If I met someone.

Sam: Yeah.

Myisha: Oh, actually, you know, I went on a friend date with someone. And I said, something like, so... I don't know it was something we had somehow gotten here and I was felt like it was okay to say like, "so what are your parents like?" or whatever. And she straight up was like, "My parents have nothing to do with who I am."

Sam: Snaps!

Myisha: And I said, I was like, Oh!

Sam: But also that's not true, but snaps.

Myisha: It's not true but I was like, "Oh, I have hit on something." And I'm not. I'm not like, you know, pushing any further but also, like, I loved that. So I was just like, Yeah, I'm not talking about my parents. That's not what we're here for. I get it. I'm going. I'm retreating. And it was, it stuck with me, obviously, because that was years ago. Yeah.

Sam: I think the next time someone asks me on a date, "How many siblings do you have?" I'm trying to think of a way to gently and kindly be like, f that question. What if I just am like, "Hmm I wonder if we can think of a better question to ask right now." Just to see what they do. Just to see what they do!

Myisha: Yeah, because my question now is like how many times have you had sex with someone who asked you that question on a first date?

Sam: Everytime, no I mean, I don't know. Gosh. It's such a default question now.

Myisha: Yeah.

Sam: Although now oh, oh, new rule! New rule! You ask on a date if he has any siblings there will be no second location.

Myisha: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Can it be a litmus test? Because, you know, you're saying like, you need them to keep up the bit. Well, I mean, asking about siblings is not showing me that you're capable of keeping up the bit.

Sam: Yeah or can I make the question a bit? So like, they ask me how many siblings do you have? And I'm like, “Guess! Make up a story for one. Go.”

Myisha: 24!

Sam: I will say a thing I love to do on first dates, or any date or any friend hang, if you're in a restaurant or bar I love to pick a table somewhere in the room and imagine a life story for the two people there or three people or whatever. That's really fun. So how can I take that energy into a sibling question? So okay, next time someone asks me on a date "Do you have any siblings?" I'm gonna say let's use this moment to have some fun. Based on what you know of me, create my sibling story. Go. How many? What's their deal? What are their names? Where are they now? Do we get along? Go! Make it up. That could be fun. And if they get that bit right there's a second location.

Myisha: Yeah. If they get if they keep if they're not thrown number one!

Sam: Yes.

Myisha: And if they can just ride with that, like, that's my kind of person.

Sam: Right!

Myisha: 100 percent.

Sam: Extend the bit! I'm an ‘extend the bit’ kind of guy.

Myisha: I love it. Yeah, this is great advice just generally for people. Okay, you know, like, keep, keep it interesting! Keep it interesting. Speaking of interesting, sometimes when we have a promising date, or you know, we're dating somebody we can get a little carried away with with the snooping online. So what do you think about this? Do you think it is nosy or helpful to dig around on the internet for anything and everything you can find about someone you're dating and finding a bunch of stuff that they haven't shared with you yet?

Sam: I'm a journalist who spent a lot of time as a producer and breaking news reporter getting really good at online research. So full disclosure, I do it. I do. I do. And I know how to find out stuff about someone with just a few Google swipes.

Myisha: Has it been helpful?

Sam: No, it's never. It's never helpful.

Myisha: So it's just nosy! It's just nosy!

Sam: It's just nosy yeah, it's never helpful. I guess there's been once or twice where it's like, the thing they said they were doing for a living on the date was a very inflated version of what their actual job was.

Myisha: Oh yeah.

Sam: And I'm not mad about the level of your job. I'm mad that you feel the need to be dishonest with me from the start.

Myisha: Right. Yeah.

Sam: But that's really only happened I wanna say once.

Myisha: Okay, good. Good. Okay, so...

Sam: I'm fucking nosy. Yeah, I'm nosy.

Myisha: Okay. Okay! I love that you own it. You know? I love it. Asking what your partner likes in bed. Is it nosy or helpful?

Sam: It's helpful. It's helpful. Gosh, it's helpful. And like, asking before, asking during and asking after!

Myisha: Thank you. Feedback!

Sam: Feedback! You know what? Sometimes what you need after sex is a postgame meeting. You need to go over the notes, you need to review the tape and figure out some shit.

Myisha: I try to tell my clients this and they think I'm crazy or that this is like excessive, but I do think that like, sometimes people are trying to give a lot or get a lot of information across in the middle of sex, which can be I think, the most challenging time sometimes. And, and like emotions can be high so it's like difficult. I think that there's a way that you can do it, where it's still sexy and can still keep things in the moment. But when I say like, you know, talk about it before, talk about what you like, talk about you know, the things you want to explore, you know, and then like, have that debrief at the end. They're like "What? You know, like, we just did it like, don't I mean, didn't we both have a good time? And why do we need to?" And I'm like, no, there's like subtleties. Also if you're trying…

Sam: Also red flag of a question! "Didn't we both have a good time?" Run! If someone's in your bedroom and they ask you a question like that when it's over, you better Jordan Peele and get out. Didn't we both have a good time? How dare you.

Myisha: Well, a lot of people assume that. We both had orgasms. So...

Sam: This is the thing. This is the thing that I've had to get better about the older I get. Not all sex needs to have an orgasm involved to be good sex. Say it again. Not all sex needs to have an orgasm involved to be good sex.

Myisha: "But how? " is the question I get.

Sam: By talking through it. By talking through it. And also like sometimes, sometimes what's better than sex and what you really need that night is like to cuddle in your underwear on the sofa and order chicken pad thai and watch Netflix.

Myisha: Love it.

Sam: And that can be more intimate than "just making sure you get the orgasm!" You know?

Myisha: Yeah. Or that I that I give you an orgasm. You know, I think there's also this like, "Well, I'm not done until I've done my job." And it's like, "Wait, what are we here for? I didn't sign up to get another job." Like, I am doing this for pleasure, for leisure, for connection, for intimacy, for all of these other things, you know? Why are we making this another to-do thing that we have to focus on like, the end goal, because most of the time, this is something that I think about a lot, but when I think about great sex that I have had, in my mind, I don't picture myself having an orgasm. It's never the end. It's never the end.

Sam: And it's never the prettiest scene.

Myisha: Well, for me, it is...

Sam: Okay! Yea! It's like, for me, it's like, I flashback to the moments where it felt like time stopped. Yes, that's the best part of sex.

Myisha: You're just free!

Sam: When you're locked in and you're free and you're not worried about an end goal. You're not worried about any kind of completion. You're just like, oh, this feels great I can stay here for a while.

Myisha: It's the feel great.

Sam: And you don't know if it's three minutes or 30 minutes. You don't know.

Myisha: You have no clue.

Sam: You're just like I'm here.

Myisha: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like the stuff. It's like the kissing and the touching and the oh man that felt so good, you know, to be with them in that moment. And oh, it was summertime. And oh, I was here. You know what I mean? There's all this other stuff that that I remember more saliently than like the orgasm. Um I have one last little little question about whether something is nosy or actually helpful. And that's when a stranger at a party asked you how you feel about a politically charged topic. What do you think? Is that just being nosy? Or is it somehow helpful for finding some common ground?

Sam: I think it's better than talking through your phone. So fine.

Myisha: Ohh.

Sam: I think the reality of the past seven or eight years of our American political life has been people fighting with strangers through the sad flashlight supercomputers in their hands. It's very bad. And so if you asking a stranger in person, in a kind way about a hot topic and talking through it thoughtfully, if that's the thing you can do it is always a better use of your time than arguing with a stranger online! So not always bad. Also, gosh, we got to get over this like, "We don't talk about these things, we do talk about those things." It's like I don't know, you want to talk talk and you want to build community, it means being able to talk about stuff. So you know, of course, you want folks to read the room and develop some kind of rapport before they ask you the hard stuff. But I don't think that it's inappropriate to ask hard questions about political topics in the right context in the right moment, because I think an in person conversation is always better than a smartphone conversation. Always.

Myisha: Yes. And I know they are not strangers, but your co-hosts on vibe check, engage in you know, conversations with you about politically charged topics all the time, on Vibe Check, and I just really hope that people take a listen and pick up some, maybe cues, on how to talk about these things. I think that would be amazing. And they can hopefully start fostering some in person conversations about these things as well. Well, I am so, so, so glad that you were able to join me today. And I just want you to share with people other than Vibe Check, which is available everywhere you get podcasts, where can people find you either online or in person if you're doing anything live?

Sam: Yeah, yeah, so Vibe Check publishes episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. I host it with my dear friends, journalists and all around great guys Zach Stafford and Saeed Jones. Saeed's also an award winning poet! And Zach just got a Tony for producing a Broadway musical. Seriously, they're great. Love them. When I'm not on that podcast every Wednesday in the podcast feeds find me on social channels at Sam Sanders, all one word, at Sam Sanders on Twitter aka X, on Instagram, and on threads. I share a lot about events and other shows I'm doing. But yeah, the best place to follow is probably Instagram. I share all my stuff there.

Myisha: Awesome. Thank you so much, Sam.

Sam: This was delightful!

Myisha: Thank you so much for listening. That's a wrap on season one of KCRW's "How's Your Sex Life?". Be sure to follow me, Myisha Battle, at Myisha Battle and avail yourself of all of my resources at my website Myisha Battle dot com. And remember to follow, rate, and review the show. Once you follow us you will be notified when new episodes are available in the new year. Thanks so much.

[CREDITS]

Myisha: "How's Your Sex Life?" is a KCRW original podcast. Our producer is Andrea Bautista. Our executive producer is Gina Delvac. Our engineer is Nick Lampone. Our music was created by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Special thanks to Women's Audio Mission, Hope Brush, Nathalie Hill, Connie Alvarez, Meggan Ellingboe, Arnie Seipel and Jennifer Ferro. And last but not least, a huge thanks to our voice actors. We'll let them introduce themselves on the way out.

Voice actor 1: I'm Megan Jamerson, thanks for listening.

Voice actor 2:

Voice actor 3: I'm Marque Green. Want more "How's Your Sex Life?" Check out kcrw dot com slash sex life to explore resources mentioned on the show.